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Bitcoin hits $200

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Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#41
post #33
post #26

The funny thing is that it didn't hit $203, or $201.12, but $200. Whoever is driving this big buys to drive up the price is doing it at very predictable, very specific price points, across multiple currencies. On mtgox GBP, for instance, it plateaus and peaks at very predictable values - £125, £130. Frankly, I think that what's going on is there are a few traders (actual traders, not BTC speculators) who are driving…

What's more likely is that a lot of people set their limit sell orders to 200, because the number is easy to come up with and easy to type.

Yeah, but that still basically says "Rank Amateurs", because you should never pick the psychologically obvious point, as otherwise you'll end up in the sell queue behind a gazillion others. Always best to go in a few points below the obvious level for your sell, and a few points above the obvious for your buy.

If you look at any "real" market, prices rarely adhere to nice round sticking points, because people are at least trying to second guess what the other guys are doing, rather than just acting as though they're the sole person in the market.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#43
post #22
post #7

Does anyone have a link or justification in anyway for the rise in the conversion rate? I like the idea of an independent (non-government), secure currency - but I can't see this as anything other than a speculation driven investment vehicle. Seems like tulip mania to me [1]. Also, is there any management of Bitcoin to prevent excessive currency fluctuations? Not having this would seem to be a flaw to me - you can't…

A better comparison than tulips would be silver. Tulips are a bad store of wealth (they rot, anyone can grow them, are not divisible, etc), whereas Bitcoin and silver can be stored and easily divided into smaller units. It still could be in a bubble, like silver was around 1980. http://silverprice.org/charts/history/silver_all_data_o_usd....

Not sure I buy either of the metaphors. Silver has industrial, scientific, and commercial (i.e., jewelry) applications that create demand and use the commodity. Bitcoin, on the other hand, does not. It's just used as a transitional currency.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#44

It's fascinating to watch this, largely because Bitcoin has no "natural" value. The only utility it has is as a transfer of value from one place to another, and it can do that equally well with a bitcoin being worth $1 or $200. But it's really interesting to watch the value ratchet up, and easy to see how you can do this - if people will only ever sell a bitcoin for (say) 1% more than they bought it for, and people b…

> The only utility it has is as a transfer of value from one place to another

Which is a lot of utility. Consider that in the US we still write physical checks, and paying by credit card costs the vendor a few percent every time.

However that utility is not limited to bitcoin. You can set up a similar algorithm using a slightly difference hash, and voila you have bitcoin2. Some people are worried that bitcoin is deflationary; I'd be more worried about alternatives popping up and inflating the whole supply. Especially since current bitcoin favors those who started mining early (and are now millionaires?) - why adopt a currency that makes other people rich when you can just mine your own new currency?

In the end, it depends what the crowd decides to do with it. The value of fiat money is always subjective (although at least USD is backed by the fact you can use it to pay your taxes.)

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#45
post #5

The problem with bitcoin is 1 or 2 events that give the public a 'scare' have the potential to nearly floor the usd value. All it takes is one headline on CNN like "Joe Blow selling Anthrax and Cyanide on Silkroad/Craigslist for Bitcoins" for the general public go to fucking apeshit and cause some real 3 letter organizations to shutter most bitcoin exchanges with secret subpoenas and such. Realistically, there is so…

Nobody who owns bitcoin gives a damn who buys what with it, any more than you care who buys what with your country's currency. It's currency.

What could threaten bitcoin is a major flaw in its algorithm, which seems unlikely in the near future, and the hacking of the primary exchange - MTGox. In fact, I keep my Bitcoin at MTGox with the knowledge that if they lose my Bitcoin, the value will plumet to nearly nothing regardless of whether my coins are there or not.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#46
One thing I don't get about bitcoin is how the transition from paying for mining to charging for transactions is going to be handled. This seems like a big upcoming change now all this money is sloshing about.

I take it the plan for transaction fees is carefully worked out to make it still be attractive to miners and merchants vs charges for visa etc or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#48
post #2

Wasn't it like $130 a few days ago? This kind of inflation is really cool for the people invested in bitcoins but this is the point where I would panic sell, but perhaps I'm a coward. EDIT: Link's down, it was $203 at 12.06 GMT.

Well, it's deflation in a broader economic/purchasing power sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

"deflation is a decrease in the general price level of goods and services"

Prices of real goods are rapidly decreasing for Bitcoin, but you are correcting that the exchange rate is ballooning or "inflating" in that sense.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#49

I'm not a substantial bitcoin investor, but I follow bitcointalk.org fairly actively, and there has been a fairly noticeable increase in posts about ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) solutions being a profitible means to mine Bitcoins. I don't know whether this is a driving factor, but it certainly relates to the expanding market in general. The wide perception of Butterfly Lab's ASIC solution as being a…

having specialized hardware that is a commodity to mine, and later, when mining is no longer profitable, to verify transactions, is a good thing! I m quite glad that it is being looked into.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#50
I have merely a passive interest in economics, but my two cents:

There was an (anonymous) article a while back from someone who ran an [I believe a small] exchange, whereby he could manipulate the buy/sell prices to his advantage (driving up BTC price) - and I can see that happening very easily; I don't know what sort of algorithms Mt Gox (or any exchange) runs for it's immediate buy/sell spot price, but a simple variation of the weighted average over the past hour * 1.05 would easily provide a price that is always rising, unless a user manually gives a lower buy / sell price - and even then that would have to be beat the current price by 5% to make any impact on the spot price. Hell, you could just inflate the prices you show to users by a certain % to create that sort of meteoric rise, even if they do place lower/higher bids - those bids are somewhat based on what the value they see in that moment.

Is this a bubble? We just don't know. Currently there are people who are willing to part quite a lot of money for a scarce virtual currency, so by all accounts if there's a demand - the value will rise, especially if supply is limited (not just now, but there will only ever be a finite amount of BTC).

Even with the hiccups (0.8 vs 0.7 double spending, Mt Gox crashes) - and a price crash in it's history - surely anyone would think twice before putting down $200 per BTC, especially when it was worth only $15 three months ago.

What's convincing these folks to invest, I just don't know. Maybe they see something I don't, but at the moment I just see a very overvalued bubble just waiting to pop. A part of me fears that it's being overrun by folks who don't trust private financial institutions to hide their (illegitimate) wealth, as I don't think the average Cypriot has the wealth, nor there are enough Cypriots (or average / middle/working-class Europeans) altogether to create the demand which would push the price where it is now. Maybe someone can run the numbers; average salary, savings, investments, total # of folks who are tech savy enough to buy BTC, compare that with the uptake in Mt Gox (or other exchanges) signups, volume, traffic etc and put together a more substantial assessment.

BTC is something the world needs badly, and over the next decade I can see it becoming incredibly prominent. But the sort of rise we've seen in the past 3 months should've taken at least 3 years; and even then it's an incredible run for what's nothing more than a digital, limited commodity.

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