Are you an underpaid developer?
41–50 of 119 posts
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#42Posting this on a throwaway account, but I would like some feedback. I'm currently making $60k in Boston as a front-end developer with just over a year of working experience. I've wondered for a while whether I'm underpaid, but I am getting a lot of experience, so I figure it evens out. I mostly wonder what I should ask for when I start my next job after I pass the hallowed "two years experience" mark, and whether I…
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#43I'm in southern Ontario. My experience: A few years mostly doing development on a LAMP stack and admin stuff on Linux/Windows systems along with some iOS dev thrown in there. Salaried at $50k from my day job and doing some part-time work.I've yet to met anyone who has made over $70k/year here doing this kind of work. (at least, they won't say how much they've earned)
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#44Just curious ... does an MSc or PhD give a salary bump anymore? Most of the young people I know with PhDs don't seem to be making much over 130K. And this is data points in NY and the Bay area.
Personally I value work experience, solid demonstrable code (ie, what you've posted on Github), and a good attitude above degrees.
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#45A lot of startup give great stock options to their employees as well.. Salary is not only thing you look at, if you want salary go work for Google and waste your life doing one thing over and over again.
It's fairly unlikely the startup you're in is really going to explode. I mean sure it happens and if you're holding a big pile of options when you hit a billion dollar IPO, that is going to be a good day for you.
For most startups though, you get a fraction of a percent of a common or option pool which will perhaps accrue some value later on if the company doesn't fail utterly.
So before you count any options as money in the bank, you need to know a whole bunch of stuff (and I am totally an amateur at this but I've done startup rides once or twice. I am, shockingly, not filthy rich from my piles of options.)
1) What percent of what pool do you have options to? The number of options you have is irrelevant, since the size of the pool is a number which is more-or-less randomly chosen when the company is founded. 5000 options sounds like a lot until you find out the option pool has 25 million shares and is 10% of the company. 2) The strike price of the option, that is what your option will cost to buy after it vests. Having 10,000 options to buy at $5/option is not really that great if they're only worth $3.
3) Remember your options can be diluted at basically any time. The company runs out of option pool and wants to grant some to new employees? That'll dilute your options. Or if the company raises more investment. Etc. The answer to point 1 and 2 is changing all the time (well, hopefully not that often!)
4) Since options are common stock, they're paid out last. Investors (usually) get preferred stock. So for example, investors hold $50 million worth of preferred stock and the company sells for $51 million. The investors take their cut first, and people holding common stock get paid out of the remaining $1 million.
Anyway, just a random option rant. Probably inaccurate in all sorts of ways. All that said, I do love doing the startup thing. It's just so much fun! I aim for that, rather than some possible future value my options my get me.
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#46I'm depressed looking at those figures now. I'm not in the US, but still... As a developer who works both on backend and frontend, let alone sysadmin work, I'm not making 1/3 of that. I should look into working with US contractors.
If you're making $100k in say, San Francisco, about half your paycheck is gone to federal, state, and local taxes, social security, retirement plan, etc. Say you're left with $4200/mo. Take a look at house prices and rents there. There goes half of that. Now half of what's left on food. Now you need transportation, clothes, a phone, insurance, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a pretty good life. And you can definitely s…
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#47I'm depressed looking at those figures now. I'm not in the US, but still... As a developer who works both on backend and frontend, let alone sysadmin work, I'm not making 1/3 of that. I should look into working with US contractors.
If you're making $100k in say, San Francisco, about half your paycheck is gone to federal, state, and local taxes, social security, retirement plan, etc. Say you're left with $4200/mo. Take a look at house prices and rents there. There goes half of that. Now half of what's left on food. Now you need transportation, clothes, a phone, insurance, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a pretty good life. And you can definitely s…
I love the bay area, but you're right, it's pretty deceptive to look at a dev salary in SF at 100k and compare it to a dev's salary in the rust belt.
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#48Posting this on a throwaway account, but I would like some feedback. I'm currently making $60k in Boston as a front-end developer with just over a year of working experience. I've wondered for a while whether I'm underpaid, but I am getting a lot of experience, so I figure it evens out. I mostly wonder what I should ask for when I start my next job after I pass the hallowed "two years experience" mark, and whether I…
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#49First you have to consider taxes, as a contractor they don't cover half your social security, so about 7%. Next you have to consider healthcare, varies but often 4% or more. Stock options and 401k can add 10% if you are at the right place. 3 weeks vacation is another 6%. So benefits are about 25% of your paycheck (this sounds low to me...)
Stability is a huge deal on both ends, knowing I don't have to pay you forever lets me pay you more and knowing you have a job to come back to means you will accept less. Assuming 10% each way you get to a 50% swing ignoring skills completely.
Given that he quotes developers getting 100% more as a huge deal, and half of that is just from freelancing, it isn't quite as a big deal as he makes it IMO.
Re: Are you an underpaid developer?
#50Both of the sources cited are talent agencies. Talent agencies make their fee based on the signing salary of their candidates. It's in their interest to drive the market value higher, even if with speculation.
On the other end, I'm on the hiring side, so it's obviously in my interest to try and keep those numbers down. I also know I can't hire if I can't pay a competitive salary (among other things), so I need to accept the data when it's there.
Both of these surveys [1][2] fail to provide any meaningful data to support their results and I'm struggling to rationalize how these can be accurate averages. I've been hired and hired others in Portland, Minneapolis, San Antonio and Chicago. From what we've hired at, what people have been hired away from us for, what friends are making, what friends at other companies are hiring at, I just don't buy it.
I get it. I'm making an argument that they don't provide data and I'm waging my argument on anecdotal evidence. I think these reports are useful for demonstrating where demand is, but I'd caution people from walking into their manager's office (or an interview) and citing this as supporting evidence.
...namely because these two reports are featured on a blog that "is teaching freelancers and consultants how to build a sustainable and high income business." Freelancers are taxed differently, pay their own benefits, and have a completely different set of expenses.
[1] https://grouptalent.com/blog/how-much-developers-make-per-ci... [2] http://rivierapartners.com/2013/02/12/2012-engineering-salar...