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I'm tired

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Re: I'm tired

#41

Post by rayiner »

famousactress wrote: post #29
richforrester wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a bit of nuance, instead of "fuck off", you could try something like "I disagree, but I'm pretty tired of that conversation", and change the topic. Statement made, stupid comment brushed off, nobody got hurt. The whole "down to their level and beat you with experience" thing comes to mind.

So.. You're probably right. Here's my (quite possibly unreasonable) defense of the language I suggested... It grinds conversations to a halt. "I disagree, but.." doesn't register shock. That's not the kind of language people use when they witness horror, or abuse. It's not emotional. If anything, if I was at the table and that was your reaction I'd probably take it to mean that your primary takeaway is to be annoyed…

I agree with you 100% fuck off conveys exactly the response a comment like that warrants. It singles out the speaker and separates him from the conversation, just like his comment did to the woman. If he wants back in, he has to do so awkwardly and sheepishly, which is I'm sure exactly how the woman in the story felt

Re: I'm tired

#42

Post by ronaldx »

I would have calmly said just this: "That's not an acceptable thing to say".

No yelling or arguing or rational reasoning: People like that guy just need to understand simply and clearly that it is not acceptable.

Re: I'm tired

#43

Post by danso »

This was painful to read. It's hard to get into the usual is-there-sexism-in-tech-or-not debate because this is so beyond the pale-dysfunctional. First, that anyone could say such a thing in polite company. Second, that the rest of the table did not demand the offending person to leave. Seriously, how is anyone, espicially the targeted woman, expected to enjoy their dinner and have a non-awkward conversation after that?

And really, this is not just a problem of some guy saying something kind of sexist. It's a guy who thinks the scales are so much in his favor that he can just say such a thing to a stranger without really offending people. He's not beyond hope, but he's not someone you should break bread with without making clear at he was completely out of line.

Edit: I'm not helping much with the OP's guilt trip...it's never easy thinking about what you should've done when the shock was over. The OP shouldn't chastise himself for not throwing a punch or making some other dramatic stand. But leaving out of protest is always an option. If it makes the troll and everyone who decided to stay feel awkward, well, that's their decision.

Re: I'm tired

#44

Post by drakeandrews »

tiredofcareer wrote: post #9
banachtarski wrote: post #6

Can we tell the GDC committee? There were witnesses, and getting him expelled from future GDC events seems like an appropriate reaction.

Speaking based on experience with what happened to Jesse Noller and the PSF just two weeks ago , you do not want to escalate this to any level where someone might lose a job or be asked to leave the conference. The same people that cannot handle social situations with women without discussing their tits resort to death threats and nonstop harassment when one of "their own" is chastised publicly for such a thing. If I…

Whilst I understand the idea you're trying to get across, we have to make it clear to these people that they're outright not welcome any more. Getting this asshat barred from future GDC's can only be a good thing and perhaps if (and when) people get up in arms over it a la Adria Richards, they need to be warned, or even barred, too.

Doing nothing because you fear the verbal reprisals of a group of immature misogynists seems, to me at least, the worst of all possible options.

Re: I'm tired

#45

Post by whalesalad »

norswap wrote: post #36

Not this again. The kind of people who make this kind of comment don't give a shit about this kind of blogpost.

Yes. This is a preaching to the choir scenario. Now I won't be able to sleep from all the ridiculous comments that are bound to ensue in this thread.

Re: I'm tired

#47

Post by tptacek »

Where are these people working, that saying something like "award winning tits" wouldn't be a firing offense?

Re: I'm tired

#48

Post by iguana »

That's quite a bold statement to make to someone, basically equivalent to saying, "you're nothing without your genitals". The proper response isn't "I disagree" or even "fuck you", it's a punch to the face. Seriously, if someone tells you, or your friend that they're worthless, you don't have to argue with them, you can knock them the fuck out.

Re: I'm tired

#49

Post by bazzargh »

rocky1138 wrote: post #31

Did the dude who made the comment say it in front of her? That's so awkward! Who does that? She didn't speak up, either?

She did speak up. See the comments (you can't at the moment because the traffic's taken the site down). And the comments have a guy who is behaving exactly like that.

To paraphrase - she tried to make the witty comeback but was talked over, and part of the point is this isn't isolated, she gets rape threats every game release; can you imagine how wearing that is?

She suggests that others also need to speak up - a quick "Not cool, dude" to anyone who behaves like this.

Re: I'm tired

#50

Post by ncallaway »

richforrester wrote: post #16
famousactress wrote: post #2

I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…

For a bit of nuance, instead of "fuck off", you could try something like "I disagree, but I'm pretty tired of that conversation", and change the topic. Statement made, stupid comment brushed off, nobody got hurt. The whole "down to their level and beat you with experience" thing comes to mind.

I think my response would be somewhere in the middle. I probably wouldn't curse the person ("fuck off") but frankly "I disagree, ..." is far too light of a response.

I would ask the offending person to leave. If they refused to leave, I would encourage all of my friends to leave.

Such a statement is so beyond-the-pale inexcusable that simply stating your opposition is insufficient. While I agree you don't need to "go down to their level", I see no reason to allow them any more of my time than is absolutely required (i.e. time spent organizing my friends' departure and paying for the check).

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