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Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

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Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#41
I am an early adopter when it makes sense. Smartphones have never made sense to me as a replacement for my desktop machine. I only recently switched to a smartphone because my trusty Nokia finally died. It made phone calls very well, by the way, and worked OK for texting and keeping a calendar, which are the three things that I mostly use the "smartphone" for.

So, I recognize that I'm not like most here, but maybe that gives me "the Emperor has no clothes" view of all this. I have to say that I'm not at all impressed with Android or Google Play. First, the UI isn't all that great. The gestures are not all intuitive, and sometimes are the opposite. (For example, why does holding my finger still on a zoomed page mean "zoom back out" when there's another gesture that I understand that will do the same thing?)

Second, 4G isn't available a lot of places I go, and I live in one of the 20 biggest cities in the U.S. Surfing the web on a Samsung phone feels a lot like surfing the web using Windows 98 over a 56k phone line 15 years ago.

Third, more than half the time when I download apps from Google Play, the download fails and I have to retry. Along the same lines, Google wants to update shit I don't use and never will use (Gmail, Youtube, I don't know what all - 9 apps recently) - which brings me back to the slowness and unreliability of downloading generally. And I now have to dive into the details of how to unlock the thing so I can remove the apps I don't want and don't use, taking the risk of bricking the handset. I don't want to know this stuff. I have enough stuff I have to know.

Fourth or fifth or wherever I am, the app store is messy and the apps want permissions I can see no good reason to give them. (For instance, why would a calculator app need access to my f'ing phonebook?)

I welcome any and all competition to the way things are now. The smartphone world right now feels a lot like AOL in the late '90s. "Oh, no one's going to leave Google or iOS when they have all these cool apps they paid money for!" That's bull and the handset manufacturers and phone companies and OS / app store owners know it, which is why they made unlocking phones illegal.

As soon as someone figures out how to make it reliably easy to unlock phones and put another OS on it that still works with your phone company's system, the handset becomes a commodity. (Too bad the BSD folks aren't too interested. The entire phone network was built on UNIX (TM). Should be a relatively simple thing to make it work.) And as soon as someone makes an app store accessible to anyone regardless of phone OS, people will go there to get apps for their OS. The walled garden play has been tried before and inevitably fails in the end because people want control of their devices.

This is one of the communities that should be making it happen, but what I hear mostly is "Oh, it can't be done! You don't know how hard it is!" There are a lot of us waiting for someone to break the oligarchies that have sprung up to take control of this market. Please do it. You might even get rich in the process.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#42

"For most Samsung smartphone owners, TouchWiz is Android, and since Tizen could easily get a TouchWiz-like user interface, the average consumer wouldn't notice a thing." You've got to be kidding. Do you remember the demo? www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1y7CpIaVA Smooth. :/ To be fair, I'm sure they're working on the UI, but UI is something that's hard to get right. It took android what, 4 years to reach a point where it's…

"TouchWiz is Android" in the same way green paint is the performance by Mila Kunas in "Oz the Great and Powerful".

I'm a very happy owner of a Galaxy Note II, but nearly everything Samsung did on the software side is value subtracting.

(Nearly, but not all: I do like the way I can capture a screenshot by moving my palm across the screen as if I'm a photocopier.)

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#43
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google added a non-fragmentation clause to their OEM agreement[1] which is meant to prevent anyone from forking it in the way that Amazon has. You can fork it, but you can't make official Android phones anymore if you do. Obviously Samsung wants to continue to sell their Galaxy S phones. Tizen is a hail mary pass. [1] http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/google-tightening-control...

Far as I can tell, those clauses are specifically related to the Android trademark / Google Apps / etc. Creating a full fork (of the publicly available source) as allowed by the Apache license with different name and no direct relation to Android should be just as good as creating Tizen. I guess the sticky point here is the closed-source early access releases that Samsung gets. Google must be threatening access to th…

If Tizen takes off, you can expect Google to drop Samsung's access to early release builds in any event as Google will then try to force customers to use Moto/LG/HTC/etc devices.

The HN gods banned me for saying bad things about Google, but I have one word for you: antitrust.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#44
post #4

While I'm sure Samsung would love to replace Android with Tizen, I doubt they will actually be able to do it. While Apple and Google make it appear easy to create an OS that users enjoy using, the reality is that it is incredibly difficult. Just look at Windows Phone - I'm fairly sure that Microsoft is more able to create a technically superior OS to Samsung, and I think the amount of money Microsoft has poured into…

I have Windows Phone 7.5 that I love. But my next phone will be Android. Yes, Windows Phone rocks, but they don't have the apps iOS and Android have. And while I can certainly browse sites directly (preference anyway), web developers forget about it during testing. Not that I blame them, since being one myself I know it's still a niche group. If their OS can run Android apps ... they're already ahead of MS.

What types of apps are you looking for? Personally I'm on my third iPhone (3G, 4, 4s) and apps are the things i use the least. I plan to switch to Nokia Lumia 928 when it comes out next month (hopefully).

It seems that the app situation (for anyone that cares about it) has gotten significantly better in the last few months alone.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#45
post #24

I can't imagine a worse android experience than what TouchWiz offers. And if you remove the android ecosystem from that they will have nothing an enthusiast or power user would ever want in a Samsung phone. Building cheap entry-level phones seemed like the right thing to do, Tizen won't be polished in the beginning (as no OS is) and people buying high-end devices today expect that it is. I'm assuming they don't want…

I can't imagine a worse android experience than what TouchWiz offers How so? To be fair a lot of the features of TouchWiz ended up being borrowed and integrated directly into Android (just as there was borrowing from SenseUI). These competitive forces have helped Android evolve.

Sure TouchWiz has features, it's the implementation and UI that stinks.

I have a friend that always said that "Samsung can't do software" and I thought that was a bit hyperbolic. Samsung is a huge company and just because one parts screws up doesn't mean, well, anything really.

But I guess I just had barely used any samsung devices that required software. I can honestly not mention a single piece of samsung software or device that wasn't seriously hindered by the software. From TVs that show hideous grey bars (when the aspect ratio doesn't match) that will blind you in dark scenes (just because the TV frame is grey (note that you can't even change this in the menus)) instead of black bars like all other TVs, to well, TouchWiz...

Take the sound notification you got in samsung phones (was this around the time of galaxy SII? (and not the 90's that you'd expect)) where the phone would make a sound notification when the battery was charged to 100%. With no way to turn it off. I dare say the most common use case when charging a phone is during the night, a lot of people have their phone alongside their bed and this meant that they would be waken a few hours later.

All samsung devices with software in it has at least a few of these annoyances that makes it obvious - no one, has ever, used this thing outside of a lab.

But that's just small details.

TouchWiz is horribly slow. No, it really is catastrophically bad. I tested the Galaxy tab 10.1 in a few stores, in everyone the interface was seriously slower than any of the competitors (with the same hardware). But I figured that this was because of people installing and abusing demo devices. Then I was to help a friend with their brand new tab 10.1, I even witnessed the unpacking and out of the box and it was just as horrid as in all the stores. The brand new top of the line $500 tablet behaved as a bloated, cheap, first generation device. And it hasn't gotten better with time.

Samsung completely ruined the Galaxy S. Compare it to the Nexus S, pretty much the same hardware and the Galaxy S was by comparison barely usable unless you installed a custom rom on it. At which point it suddenly became a great phone.

The touchwiz calendar and messaging applications (in galaxy SIII) looks like they have been designed by a 10-year old starting to learn photoshop (seriously, I just can't believe my eyes everytime i use a Samsung android phone). The UI isn't even remotely consistent with... anything.

Everything they tweaked and touched has been for the worse. Yes they have their own features, mostly features that are fun the first five minutes (if you are a ten year old) but at best doesn't annoy you after the first week.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#47
post #4

While I'm sure Samsung would love to replace Android with Tizen, I doubt they will actually be able to do it. While Apple and Google make it appear easy to create an OS that users enjoy using, the reality is that it is incredibly difficult. Just look at Windows Phone - I'm fairly sure that Microsoft is more able to create a technically superior OS to Samsung, and I think the amount of money Microsoft has poured into…

Well said as always Ryan! Agreed :) IT would definitely be a bad move for Samsung and of course a good move on behalf of Apple :)

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine a worse android experience than what TouchWiz offers How so? To be fair a lot of the features of TouchWiz ended up being borrowed and integrated directly into Android (just as there was borrowing from SenseUI). These competitive forces have helped Android evolve.

Sure TouchWiz has features, it's the implementation and UI that stinks. I have a friend that always said that "Samsung can't do software" and I thought that was a bit hyperbolic. Samsung is a huge company and just because one parts screws up doesn't mean, well, anything really. But I guess I just had barely used any samsung devices that required software. I can honestly not mention a single piece of samsung software…

I'm not really looking to defend Samsung -- their TVs and blu-ray players have terrible software (though on the gray bar bit, clearly that was an entirely intentional choice. Plasmas do that specifically because otherwise you will very quickly have a center portion of the screen that is dimmer than the outer portion, so the gray balances the wear. While LCD is supposedly immune to this, I once had a set that suffered the aspect ratio "burn-in" issue, retaining the obvious demarcation over weeks of use and multiple restarts), however having owned the Galaxy S II and now GS III, I have absolutely no issue with TouchWiz. Further it's notable that Samsung had a hardware accelerated browser that functioned much better than Android's offering before Google did.

You're kind of veering to the point of insulting people who might actually see credibility in TouchWiz (the whole "if you're ten years old" thing), which, I guess...whatever. But as someone who has quite appreciated Samsung devices I just don't have the complaints.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#50

The platform lock-in has never been about the OS, it's always been about the apps. Why do you buy a Nintendo system? Because of the OS? No, because of Mario. Why do you buy Windows? Because of the OS? No, because of Office or some PC game or maybe Visual Studio. Samsung can't rid itself of Android until it has a way to run android apps on Tizen or possibly just to pay devs millions of dollars to port their apps.

It is right in the article that android apps run on Tizen.

I see. We're witnessing OS/2 mobile edition.
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