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72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

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Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#41

Post by blablabla123 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #23

This isn't just bureaucratic self-protection. MOOCs really aren't ready for that yet. They're awesome, but much of the educational problem is social (tutoring and study groups, group projects, evaluation that can't be automated) and even though "social" is the buzzword of the 2010s, we as a technological society aren't good (at scale) at that stuff yet. I think that the next step of evolution is free coursework and f…

The social part is difficult. I did attend a Coursera Coursera and at the beginning I though, cool, so now I make a study group. They have a dedicated forum for that. So I said, look, here's my study group and I got more feedback than I thought, someone even nearly begging to get in. ;)

Then I created a Google Group and posted it in the thread. Guess what: 3 people joined the Group, one was active. (So 2 in total including me.) Lesson for me: when suggesting a study group, have the Google Group link ready.

That said, I think the social part is fine, we have social networks for that. Users just need to learn how to socialize online. This is becoming more important everyday even outside Coursera and friends..

Tutors would be cool, but IMHO they are not necessary for successful learning. I remember a dutch math professor saying basically: "I am unnecessary, you just need to ask the right questions." I.e. if you ask the right questions, you will find the next steps best case by yourself.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#42

Post by henrik_w »

mogrim wrote: post #39
numbsafari wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ever return to school, I'm going to want what I didn't get nearly enough of in my undergraduate degree: in-person access to professors. I don't want college credit for browsing the web and watching videos. I want coaching, feedback and interaction from people with deep knowledge in their field.

But doing the gruntwork online, and focussing on quality interaction with professors? I can see real-time lecturing dying out: that's time that could be more profitably spent doing the coaching and feedback that as you point out has much greater value.

Exactly, like the flipped classroom: covering the material is through videos, questions and discussions are in person.

@blahedo: True, it doesn't have to be video. Personally I prefer reading to watching a video.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#43

Post by saraid216 »

blablabla123 wrote: post #41
michaelochurch wrote: post #23

This isn't just bureaucratic self-protection. MOOCs really aren't ready for that yet. They're awesome, but much of the educational problem is social (tutoring and study groups, group projects, evaluation that can't be automated) and even though "social" is the buzzword of the 2010s, we as a technological society aren't good (at scale) at that stuff yet. I think that the next step of evolution is free coursework and f…

The social part is difficult. I did attend a Coursera Coursera and at the beginning I though, cool, so now I make a study group. They have a dedicated forum for that. So I said, look, here's my study group and I got more feedback than I thought, someone even nearly begging to get in. ;) Then I created a Google Group and posted it in the thread. Guess what: 3 people joined the Group, one was active. (So 2 in total inc…

Well, yes. Everything you learn in education was something someone came up with on their own without being educated first. The point of education is to facilitate that process.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#44

Post by blahedo »

henrik_w wrote: post #42
mogrim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But doing the gruntwork online, and focussing on quality interaction with professors? I can see real-time lecturing dying out: that's time that could be more profitably spent doing the coaching and feedback that as you point out has much greater value.

Exactly, like the flipped classroom: covering the material is through videos, questions and discussions are in person. @blahedo: True, it doesn't have to be video. Personally I prefer reading to watching a video.

Don't put the cart before the horse: videos are only one way to cover the material, and not always (or even usually) the best one. The people that are strongly pushing videos as an integral component of flipping the classroom are in fact still stuck in a lecture mode---but why use videos of lectures if the complaint about lectures is that they're less efficient than just reading the book? Video is appropriate for some things, but other modalities (such as books, viz software, practice problem engines, etc) are more appropriate for much of the "before you come to class" material.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#45

Post by lostnet »

I have been taking MOOCs continuously since the Stanford ones started (and took some non-video online classes years back at my University) and I am rather concerned about the affect directly giving credit for MOOCs could have on them.

If physical University classes were free and easy to join I do not think I would participate much, and I think the bad taste I get stems from the people who are there just for the credit. Similarly, I wonder about the quality of peer reviews in MOOCs where most people are there for an external incentive.

Personally, I would rather see independent test centers replace the accreditation process for everyone, removing that pressure from the teaching system all around.

Also, I would love to hear thoughts from an Actuary on how the independent test system affects their profession and their expectations when meeting a new colleague.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#47

Post by baby »

ddlatham wrote: post #12

72 percent of professors who have taught Massive Open Online Courses (MOOCs) don’t believe that students should get official college credit ... which means the actual number of professors who discount the quality of MOOCs is probably much (much) higher. They are making a huge unwarranted leap when they go from a professor thinking someone doesn't deserve official credit to saying that the quality of a course is low.…

And they are right. They are many ways to cheat. And there are no ways to prove you didn't.

The system on Coursera (the one I tried) is actually very "relax". You have weeks to do your weekly tests, and weeks to do the final exam. You can edit as much as you want your answers, and you can re-do a test which is usually the same questions but with different answers (and also, when every time you submit a test they tell you what you could have done wrong).

If you wanted to give real credits for that, then you'd have to put a real limit of time to those tests first.

But I like the way it is. We don't learn something for credit anymore. I hate going to a test because that's not what I want to do when I go to university. If you don't get real credit when you pass a course on Coursera, then why would you cheat? You can just learn for the pleasure of learning.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#48

Post by corey »

baby wrote: post #47
ddlatham wrote: post #12

72 percent of professors who have taught Massive Open Online Courses (MOOCs) don’t believe that students should get official college credit ... which means the actual number of professors who discount the quality of MOOCs is probably much (much) higher. They are making a huge unwarranted leap when they go from a professor thinking someone doesn't deserve official credit to saying that the quality of a course is low.…

And they are right. They are many ways to cheat. And there are no ways to prove you didn't. The system on Coursera (the one I tried) is actually very "relax". You have weeks to do your weekly tests, and weeks to do the final exam. You can edit as much as you want your answers, and you can re-do a test which is usually the same questions but with different answers (and also, when every time you submit a test they tell…

It's not just cheating, it's also the fact that when you have to use automated grading, it's much more difficult to create good tests.

I hope in the future they offer you the option of taking a real test at a testing center, which is graded by a human being.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#49

Post by zanny »

numbsafari wrote: post #29
flogic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ever return to school, I'd certainly be willing to consider online courses in combination with testing at an approved location.

If I ever return to school, I'm going to want what I didn't get nearly enough of in my undergraduate degree: in-person access to professors. I don't want college credit for browsing the web and watching videos. I want coaching, feedback and interaction from people with deep knowledge in their field.

Sounds like you want apprenticeships and mentors, not professors.

I do think apprenticing needs to come back, big time, to complement a digital learning curriculum for the grunt work. In my undergrad, I'd say 2% of my time was actually professor-engaged, and the rest was assembly line rote work read-the-book-repeat-the-answer.

Re: 72% Of Professors Who Teach Online Courses Don't Think Students Deserve Credit

#50

Post by hackinthebochs »

larrys wrote: post #27
ddlatham wrote: post #12

72 percent of professors who have taught Massive Open Online Courses (MOOCs) don’t believe that students should get official college credit ... which means the actual number of professors who discount the quality of MOOCs is probably much (much) higher. They are making a huge unwarranted leap when they go from a professor thinking someone doesn't deserve official credit to saying that the quality of a course is low.…

"The issue is one of accountability, not quality." The issue is also one of dilution of the institution granting the credit and branding. If someone is able to take an online course and receive credit they will then be able to infer an affiliation with the institution that will dilute the value of an existing degree from that institution. This already of course can and does happen (just like locks don't prevent every…

Doesn't surprise me at all. In the race for profit schools are diluting their own brand. Around DC I constantly see advertisements for Harvard/Georgetown/American University/etc Night/Online/Extended Learning classes. There is a big land rush when it comes to "legitimate" online learning institutions. But they are going to seriously dilute the value of their brand in the process. I find it amazing that these schools aren't more hesitant in offering these backdoor ways at getting a Harvard, etc "degree" just for a few extra bucks.
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