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Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

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Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#41

Post by damian2000 »

habosa wrote: post #37

This was compared to software that ships with all the features but requires a serial number to unlock the good ones. However I think this is different, and I think modifying hardware in this way is considerably more moral than using keygens to unlock software. It's hard to exactly state why I feel that this hardware mod is entirely moral behavior while software piracy is not but it's hard to put my finger on the righ…

Agreed - you've spent your dollars on an actual physical device. Then find out you've paid for the same components as a professional model, but can't use it. An article here on Wired is on the same subject ... http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/03/you-dont-own-your-cellp...

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#42

Post by Amadou »

habosa wrote: post #37

This was compared to software that ships with all the features but requires a serial number to unlock the good ones. However I think this is different, and I think modifying hardware in this way is considerably more moral than using keygens to unlock software. It's hard to exactly state why I feel that this hardware mod is entirely moral behavior while software piracy is not but it's hard to put my finger on the righ…

If this hack well and truly only modifies the PCI ID, then it follows that all of the performance difference is in the drivers - maybe with different firmware downloads on initialization, or maybe just the API exposed to applications.

How would you feel about a binary patch that modified the driver to treat a card with the low-end PCI ID as if it were a high-end card?

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#43

Post by drivebyacct2 »

parad0x1 wrote: post #18

Entire post mirrored here: http://imgur.com/ZJt0VmT Save it as well.

Ow, my eyes. Between the microscopic font and jpeg artifacts.

HTML source of the print friendly version: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5193769

Or less artifacty screenshot: http://i4.minus.com/itHdo0GR7zXw1.png (Sorry to steal any thunder!)

Not affiliated, but minus.com doesn't compress high-res PNGs into JPEGs like imgur does (it's only at a certain size that imgur does it, but it's annoying for screenshot threads, or in this case).

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#44

Post by rumcajz »

memset wrote: post #23

The corresponding reddit thread is quite insightful: "It is far cheaper to make one very good chip for the highest market, and modify it slightly for lower end markets... Now, this is the part you hate: this is the only viable alternative. There's no point demanding different designs for different market segments as that would significantly increase the cost you, the consumer, pays. You can demand chips be sold at lo…

Lot of industries are able to survive without extensive market segmentation. Why should it not be possible for HW manufacturers?

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#45

Post by habosa »

Amadou wrote: post #42
habosa wrote: post #37

This was compared to software that ships with all the features but requires a serial number to unlock the good ones. However I think this is different, and I think modifying hardware in this way is considerably more moral than using keygens to unlock software. It's hard to exactly state why I feel that this hardware mod is entirely moral behavior while software piracy is not but it's hard to put my finger on the righ…

If this hack well and truly only modifies the PCI ID, then it follows that all of the performance difference is in the drivers - maybe with different firmware downloads on initialization, or maybe just the API exposed to applications. How would you feel about a binary patch that modified the driver to treat a card with the low-end PCI ID as if it were a high-end card?

I think although the effect is the same, it's not as justified. For one, you can distribute a patch to people who do not have to do any "labor" to get the same effect as the hardware mod. You can't distribute a hardware mod to others. Also, with software I feel there is an implicit trust agreement. Photoshop is just a different series of 1s and 0s than GIMP and both are just a different sequence of 1s and 0s than what exists on the empty, fragmented parts of your hard drive. However as a society we have agreed to pay for our copy of these binary sequences and this is the entire software market. We've also, mostly, agreed not to give the software we buy away to everyone else just because it's technologically possible.

However I don't think the same social contract exists for hardware. It might be part of the hacker spirit but hardware modifications are encouraged and often celebrated. People who make their BMWs drive faster than they should or make Blu Ray lasers into lightsabers are applauded in a much different way than software pirates. Again, I can't really explain the cultural distinction but I'm very aware of its existence and that's why I can't see any objection to this Nvidia hack.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#46

Post by GhotiFish »

hfsktr wrote: post #30
tedchs wrote: post #20

It's possible Nvidia manufactures the higher-end cards and then, if they fail the high-end testing but pass low-end testing, are marked as the lower-end card. There is precedent for this in many areas of computer hardware (CPU, RAM, hard drives). I would be wary of undoing this and expecting any level of reliability.

That is a good point. Something I really wouldn't have even thought of before even though I knew about the hard drives part. In the post he says: "the GTX 690 and the Quadro K5000 (same GPU) and, get this... the K5000 is only single GPU and clocked some 25-30% slower then the gaming card, what a joke" so wouldn't it be downgrading the card to make it usable on linux? maybe not idk much about linux, drivers, hardware…

no, he's only altering how the drivers perceive the card.

Frankly, throwing in resistors to modify how it get's identified by the computer is really a hardware hack for a software problem.

The drivers are stupid, and they're deliberately choosing to not use card features.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#47

Post by luke_s »

habosa wrote: post #37

This was compared to software that ships with all the features but requires a serial number to unlock the good ones. However I think this is different, and I think modifying hardware in this way is considerably more moral than using keygens to unlock software. It's hard to exactly state why I feel that this hardware mod is entirely moral behavior while software piracy is not but it's hard to put my finger on the righ…

No, your not the only one to feel that way. In fact, until you explicitly pointed it out I wouldn't have thought at all that what this guy was doing was the moral equivalent of using a keygen to unlock features he has not paid for.

I think its the physicality of what he has done that causes this. To me it 'feels' like somebody modifying a thing he had bought to make it more useful - we do this all the time without any moral qualms, such as modifying a pair of jeans so they fit you better. Or you can pull apart cheap AA batteries to get more expensive watch batteries contained inside [1]. Nobody would dare claim such behaviour is immoral.

Yet somehow what this guy has done is skirting a moral boundary and using a keygen is widely considered 'wrong'.

1 - http://www.howtogeek.com/95390/hack-apart-a-12v-battery-for-...

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#48

Post by tren »

memset wrote: post #23

The corresponding reddit thread is quite insightful: "It is far cheaper to make one very good chip for the highest market, and modify it slightly for lower end markets... Now, this is the part you hate: this is the only viable alternative. There's no point demanding different designs for different market segments as that would significantly increase the cost you, the consumer, pays. You can demand chips be sold at lo…

Interesting, I just finished reading Joel's article on pricing talking about this: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#49

Post by GhotiFish »

danilocampos wrote: post #29
sargun wrote: post #5

I don't entirely know how I feel about this hack. I feel like this is really similar to unlocking the "Professional" version of a piece of software with a serial key generator. Although, I understand hardware is dramatically different than software, it's using the same principal -- the same reusable bits to assemble many different products, and then just using tools to mask features unless a user pays for them. Then…

It's not about principles, it's about economics. This is a matter of price discrimination. Nvidia wants to be sure they have a chance to sell their gear to every single person who has money to spend on graphics cards at a range of price points. Consumers have smaller wallets than professionals, but both have similar needs. So the company performs a "hack" that allows them to extract maximum revenues from each segment…

Yes. That's a wonderful rhetoric, but really what it's saying is that the only people who don't deserve being screwed are the people that make it a hobby to tinker.

There's many other areas of life to specialize in, not just technology/engineering side of things. I think general fair play trumps an incentive to learn and hack.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#50

Post by syassami »

Kind of reminds me back in the day where you could flash your Ati X800 card (12 pipelines) to upgrade it to 16 pipelines of the X800 XT model. (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/100). This decision corresponds with the quote in the top comment."It is far cheaper to make one very good chip for the highest market, and modify it slightly for lower end markets..."
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