Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 176 posts

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#41

Post by gknoy »

rayiner wrote: post #24
mtgx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then we should hope this goes to the Supreme Court so it can be upheld there and applied everywhere? Or will most smaller courts apply it in other districts anyway, if the 9th Circuit upholds it?

It really depends. For politically controversial stuff like this, lower courts ten to be skeptical of out-of-Circuit decisions, especially out of the 9th, which has a reputation for being lala-land. If it were something mundane, or the circuit was say the 2nd rather than the 9th, then district courts elsewhere would probably consider the decision fairly persuasive, absent a contrary decision in their own circuit. But…

> Ideally... the 9th circuit [upholds], then ... a different circuit to come out the other way so ... the Supreme Court needs to resolve the circuit split.

I think that is the likely outcome, but I think an ideal one would be one where more than one circuit court affirm this standpoint, and the others follow suit. Wouldn't it then no longer need to go to the Supreme Court?

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#42

Post by will_brown »

r00fus wrote: post #38
will_brown wrote: post #34

This is definitely a victory and kudos to the EFF, but keep this win in perspective. The Court only ruled on the gag orders attached to the NSLs. Therefore, as of now the executive can still issue an NSL, without a gag order attached, which is still the equivalent of a warrant less search and seizure. So there is still a larger fight ahead in getting the Courts to rule the NSLs are Unconstitutional.

Don't just give them kudos. Send the EFF dollars.

I have done more than send money to the EFF, I applied to be an attorney for the EFF and when that did not pan out I contacted them to volunteer my legal services pro-bono. I don't see eye to eye with the EFF on all issues, but when they sued AT&T in 2006 I saw the potential ACLU of technology.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#43

Post by mey »

will_brown wrote: post #34

This is definitely a victory and kudos to the EFF, but keep this win in perspective. The Court only ruled on the gag orders attached to the NSLs. Therefore, as of now the executive can still issue an NSL, without a gag order attached, which is still the equivalent of a warrant less search and seizure. So there is still a larger fight ahead in getting the Courts to rule the NSLs are Unconstitutional.

Please read the EFF's press release closely. Specifically

In today's ruling, the court held that the gag order provisions of the statute violate the First Amendment and that the review procedures violate separation of powers. Because those provisions were not separable from the rest of the statute, the court declared the entire statute unconstitutional.

There is are two separate issues, overstepping of executive authority and free speech, all aspects of NSL are being declared. Not just the gag section. Now there is a 90 day window for appeal, and I would expect the DoJ to appeal.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#44

Post by brown9-2 »

sixQuarks wrote: post #35
mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

As someone who is not affiliated with either party, I really don't get Obama supporters. He was supposed to bring change to the white house, instead, he has expanded Bush-era secrecy and has eroded our civil liberties even further... and not a peep from his support base. In my view, democrats are the lesser of two evils, but I'm just surprised that nothing has been done about this.

What civil liberties have been eroded?

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#46

Post by bashinator »

rsync wrote: post #30

This will open up our Monday morning schedule nicely if we no longer have to maintain: http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt It would be our great pleasure :)

Wouldn't this just be considered premeditated intent to violate the NSL gag orders?

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#47

Post by ericd »

r00fus wrote: post #36
sixQuarks wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is not affiliated with either party, I really don't get Obama supporters. He was supposed to bring change to the white house, instead, he has expanded Bush-era secrecy and has eroded our civil liberties even further... and not a peep from his support base. In my view, democrats are the lesser of two evils, but I'm just surprised that nothing has been done about this.

The depressing part is realizing that Obama is actually the lesser of two evils (two elections running), and that worse could be happening right now in terms of rights erosion and increase in security-state. There is no left-wing remaining in power in this country. You only have corporatists and reactionary extremists corporatists.

It seems as though you may need to be a corporatist to raise a war chest comparable to the corporatists. It seems like the logical/natural steady state of elections with deregulated campaign finance...

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#48

Post by bmelton »

brown9-2 wrote: post #44
sixQuarks wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is not affiliated with either party, I really don't get Obama supporters. He was supposed to bring change to the white house, instead, he has expanded Bush-era secrecy and has eroded our civil liberties even further... and not a peep from his support base. In my view, democrats are the lesser of two evils, but I'm just surprised that nothing has been done about this.

What civil liberties have been eroded?

He extended the PATRIOT act, is potentially skirting the fifth amendment, and is trying to seriously infringe the second amendment.

Edit: If you disagree with my assertions, you can make your own informed opinion based on this data: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/su...

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#49

Post by Shivetya »

KoulMomo wrote: post #37
dreamdu5t wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredibly alarming. This is Obama's justice department too, headed by people he personally appointed.

Obama's justice department has been just as horrible, if not more-so than Bush's justice department.

The real tragedy is the free pass the press gives him, if Bush had pulled this, the drone hits, fast and furious, and more, we would have at least had the press on our side.

I can, but don't have to accept, members of his own party turning a blind eye, I will never accept a press which has.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#50

Post by jacoblyles »

sixQuarks wrote: post #35
mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

As someone who is not affiliated with either party, I really don't get Obama supporters. He was supposed to bring change to the white house, instead, he has expanded Bush-era secrecy and has eroded our civil liberties even further... and not a peep from his support base. In my view, democrats are the lesser of two evils, but I'm just surprised that nothing has been done about this.

I'm in the business of building things that have never been done before, so I value economic freedom and good governance and my estimate of the lesser of two evils goes the other way.

But it's sad that we get no civil liberties either way (unless people like Rand Paul get their way).

Post reply on HN