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I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

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Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#41

Post by RockofStrength »

I consider the fundamental chords in progressions to be tetrads (seventh and sixth chords). Triads are nice in their ambiguity as to where they are going (and their sonic simplicity), and when a seventh or a sixth note is added, it generally tells you where the chord is headed.

EGs: I I I6 V V V V7 I vs. I I I Imaj7 IV IV IV IV6 I

Sixth chords move up a fifth, seventh chords move down a fifth. (the seventh of a chord falls, the sixth rises - one can also view the IV7 chord in blues music that moves to the I to be a IV+6)

The fundamental tetrad concept introduces the idea of "homophonic chords" - for example, a major sixth chord and a minor seventh chord have the exact same pattern, and the designation depends on context. Often, two designations exist in a superposition until it is settled later on (or never).

Also interesting is chordal metamorphosis, where for example a subtle shift in notes can modulate you into a new mode -for example, V morphing into III7 by chromatically altering a note, taking you from major mode to relative minor. (and this particular V III7 change is a nice way to make a strong chord change when stuck on an already strong chord) EG: Hallelujah - |I |IV V |vi |IV |V |III7 |vi |

Music theory is a very interesting topic, and I've arrived at models that do a pretty good job of explaining the underworkings, allowing me to appreciate the beauty of songs analytically as well as emotionally.

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#43

Post by davec »

anigbrowl wrote: post #32
davec wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the more recent and most popular analyses at www.hooktheory.com/analysis

I know, but it only shows the top 10 of each (which is what I was referring to above). I grew up listening to mostly British music in the 80s, but that's underrepresented in the database - so I searched for the Smiths, Pet Shop boys, and several other bands from that period without getting any results at all.

Sorry. We used to have a way to show more than the top 10, but it seems to have been disappeared. I'll make sure that gets added back to make browsing easier.

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#44

Post by gnaritas »

haberman wrote: post #23
gnaritas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The circle of fifths and fourths are the same circle. Clockwise is a fifth, counterclockwise is a fourth.

It's more like it's a circle of both fifths and fourths, in both directions. For example, C-G is a fifth if you go up, or a fourth if you go down. C-F is a fourth if you go up, or a fifth if you go down. So it can be a circle of fourths clockwise or counterclockwise.

Circles don't have up and down. :) Going clockwise is always a fifth, counterclockwise is always a fourth.

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#45

Post by haberman »

gnaritas wrote: post #44
haberman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like it's a circle of both fifths and fourths, in both directions. For example, C-G is a fifth if you go up, or a fourth if you go down. C-F is a fourth if you go up, or a fifth if you go down. So it can be a circle of fourths clockwise or counterclockwise.

Circles don't have up and down. :) Going clockwise is always a fifth, counterclockwise is always a fourth.

Circles don't, but intervals do. If you start at middle C (C4), you can go up to G4 to get a fifth or down to G3 to get a fourth. Ergo C-G can, in the abstract, be thought of as a fifth or a fourth.

I think what you are trying to say is that going clockwise gives you successive dominants, while going counterclockwise gives you successive subdominants.

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#46

Post by anigbrowl »

davec wrote: post #43
anigbrowl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, but it only shows the top 10 of each (which is what I was referring to above). I grew up listening to mostly British music in the 80s, but that's underrepresented in the database - so I searched for the Smiths, Pet Shop boys, and several other bands from that period without getting any results at all.

Sorry. We used to have a way to show more than the top 10, but it seems to have been disappeared. I'll make sure that gets added back to make browsing easier.

Cool!

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#47

Post by jdietrich »

king_jester wrote: post #40
aptimpropriety wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It bothers me a bit when people link this to 'explain away' pop music. It's my belief this is an oversimplification - many of these songs are written in different keys, which can create different sounds and feelings of songs. Sure, you can transpose them to a common key (as they've done here), but at that point, it's not really the same song anymore. Also, I've found that chord progressions can be quite flexible if o…

> Pop music is frequently spoken down upon, that it's 'talent-less' or 'garbage', but it really is like any other expert discipline - if it were so easy, there wouldn't be such a saturation of experts dominating the field. Pop music and folk songs use common chord progressions with variations for the simple reason that such songs are easy to pick up and play. To that end, pop music is the opposite of an expert discip…

Pop resolutely is an expert discipline, but the expertise is of a type that many classically-trained musicians barely register.

Skilled musicians tend to be timbre-deaf; In addition, classically-trained musicians are invariably groove-deaf. They mentally process melody and harmony very efficiently, which is tremendously useful but inevitably means discarding a lot of musical information that is highly meaningful to the lay listener.

If you listen with a musician's ear to most pop records, you hear a simple melody, a simple chord progression, maybe some simple harmonies, all at a fixed tempo and time signature. If you listen with a pop songwriter's ear, you hear hooks and earworms and prosody, you hear a perfectly honed and polished lyric and a melody that carries the meaning of that lyric without a wasted beat. If you listen with a producer's ear, you hear the product of sixty years of evolution in creating sonic landscapes that sound big and rich and engaging on anything from a nightclub soundsystem to a pocket radio.

In pop production, you've got to grab someone's attention in ten seconds, engage them in thirty seconds and move their emotions in three minutes. When most of your potential listeners are scarcely paying attention, that's fiendishly difficult. Pop has it's own virtuosi, an elite of songwriters and topliners and producers who can tell a story and convey a feeling with haiku-like efficiency.

Listen closely and you'll hear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JipHEz53sU

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#48

Post by gnaritas »

haberman wrote: post #45
gnaritas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circles don't have up and down. :) Going clockwise is always a fifth, counterclockwise is always a fourth.

Circles don't, but intervals do. If you start at middle C (C4), you can go up to G4 to get a fifth or down to G3 to get a fourth. Ergo C-G can, in the abstract, be thought of as a fifth or a fourth. I think what you are trying to say is that going clockwise gives you successive dominants , while going counterclockwise gives you successive subdominants .

> Circles don't, but intervals do.

Great, but we're discussion the circle of fifths and fourths, not the intervals. You've moving the goal post. A fifth and a fourth are the same interval, but in the context of a key they are not, thus the circle is only fourths in one direction. You can't decide if an interval is a fifth or a fourth without knowing the key.

> I think what you are trying to say is that going clockwise gives you successive dominants, while going counterclockwise gives you successive subdominants.

I'm not trying to say it, I said it.

Pick any note on the circle, it's fifth (dominant) is directly clockwise and it's fourth (sub-dominant) is directly counterclockwise. Counterclockwise is always the fourth of the note you're moving from.

Re: I analyzed the chords to 1300 songs for patterns. Part 3 – Interactive Discovery

#49

Post by aptimpropriety »

jdietrich wrote: post #47
king_jester wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pop music is frequently spoken down upon, that it's 'talent-less' or 'garbage', but it really is like any other expert discipline - if it were so easy, there wouldn't be such a saturation of experts dominating the field. Pop music and folk songs use common chord progressions with variations for the simple reason that such songs are easy to pick up and play. To that end, pop music is the opposite of an expert discip…

Pop resolutely is an expert discipline, but the expertise is of a type that many classically-trained musicians barely register. Skilled musicians tend to be timbre-deaf; In addition, classically-trained musicians are invariably groove-deaf. They mentally process melody and harmony very efficiently, which is tremendously useful but inevitably means discarding a lot of musical information that is highly meaningful to t…

You've said what I've been trying to articulate for a long time - in much better terms than I ever could. Thank you!

I like the dichotomy of songwriter vs. producer - but I would guess it isn't always so discrete - i.e., production and mastering is essential to conveying the emotions and moods of the songwriting. In fact, I would argue the lyrics are often overemphasized in analysis - they are more of a vessel for tones and cadence of the song.

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