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Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

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Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#41

Post by pagliara »

enraged_camel wrote: post #24

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

I'm sure Woz has a fine understanding of "how humans operate", perhaps even better than you or I. He has worked with some of the most important individuals and companies in this industry.

Woz is not dumb. His point was that he chose to adopt this mindset on purpose. He'd rather be the "average person joking all the time than a powerful businessman stressing over work everyday".

By not calling out Jobs for screwing him out of $5,000, you can easily say Woz was just avoiding confrontation. But I really think his whole mindset transcends that. It just wasn't important to him. And that's how Woz lived his whole life, simply focusing on the things that really mattered to him.

I have always been so impressed with how true to himself Woz was.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#42

Post by mburney »

enraged_camel wrote: post #24

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

From my experience most "nerds" are actually way too quick to criticize others. They lack confidence in their social skills so they form an identity around their supposed technical abilities. Then they use that identity to justify bullying, but instead of beating up someone with a diminutive stature they'll post a tweet about how someone is a moron for not using the correct design pattern on some code they posted on github.

This is not confidence -- this is insecurity and arrogance.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#43

Post by obstacle1 »

Lewton wrote: post #39
obstacle1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course you can be nice, but then code and product quality would end up affected. Why? This attitude baffles me. You don't have to be a dick when reviewing someone's code, terrible or not. > The person being reviewed knows it's not personal It absolutely is personal if you make it personal, i.e. start personally insulting the author. "How could you be so stupid to write this this way?" "This is really idiotic cod…

I found both types of examples you gave insulting. Obviously being called dumb is insulting, but being treated like a baby is too. What's so wrong with just saying "This should be changed because ___" "You should avoid doing something like this because __" ?

I prefer the ways you've verbalized it. Facts are good.

Just pointing out the opposite of being "not nice", and that it is still possible to be productive while being so.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#44

Post by johnminter »

lsh wrote: post #29
david927 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not a manager, it's not your job to criticize others. You can privately let the manager know why you think there was a failure, but that's just your opinion, the manager may see it differently. If you are a manager, while it is your job to occasionally criticize performance, it is never your job to criticize people. Further, if someone is "fucking up constantly," it's your fault. Do they understand the requ…

> If you're not a manager, it's not your job to criticize others. Nonsense. If you work in a particular role with others at a company, you are able to measure yourself against them and others - not just output, but in lots of different ways. If someone is doing a particularly sloppy job or "fucking up constantly" it's your responsibility as a professional and as a decent human being to raise them up. You can do this…

I think you are correct. Let me add two points: 1) Even though presenting constructive criticism may be uncomfortable for both parties, getting "blindsided" by the boss can really wreck a working relationship. 2) The reception one receives depends upon the prior relationship - a good one raises the probability of getting a "listening ear."

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#45

Post by mhandley »

wallflower wrote: post #3

JL posted her interview of Woz on the Founders at Work website. It's one of my favorites in the book (need to buy another copy, gave away my last one) because you really get a sense of the pure hacker/engineering genius/engineering spirit Woz is. The floppy drive story is priceless. http://www.foundersatwork.com/steve-wozniak.html

I hadn't read that before - it's a really good read. Thanks!

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#47

Post by gingerlime »

obstacle1 wrote: post #34
gingerlime wrote: post #16

"You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills." Reading from inspiring people like Wozniak makes me wonder how to adopt such advice. I am wondering about that almost every time I review a pull request. How do you deal with bad code, poor comments or over-engineering when you see it? Of course you can be nice, but…

> Of course you can be nice, but then code and product quality would end up affected. Why? This attitude baffles me. You don't have to be a dick when reviewing someone's code, terrible or not. > The person being reviewed knows it's not personal It absolutely is personal if you make it personal, i.e. start personally insulting the author. "How could you be so stupid to write this this way?" "This is really idiotic cod…

not being nice != being a dick.

I never make rude and inappropriate comments or call people names. I do try to highlight mistakes or what I consider to be a wrong approach. Some of those well-articulated comments still some times get misinterpreted, and egos get involved in the discussion.

Wozniak is talking about not criticizing people, and in that respect, even a nicely put, well articulated comment is a form of criticism.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#48

Post by gingerlime »

zwischenzug wrote: post #40
Lewton wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found both types of examples you gave insulting. Obviously being called dumb is insulting, but being treated like a baby is too. What's so wrong with just saying "This should be changed because ___" "You should avoid doing something like this because __" ?

I always advise my staff to simply stick to the facts. Anything that can be disputed will be. This results in statements like: "I'd like this changed because I believe it's a mistake to use globals in this context" rather than "You're/It's wrong to put a global here" The difference is subtle, but important. It allows personal opinion to be used without the debate being personal.

That seems to be the direction I was looking for. It is subtle, but I see the difference. What I noticed in your example is two things:

1. The statement is framed as a personal viewpoint, rather than absolute truth/fact. 2. You not only state the problem, but also the intent or direction for a fix.

I'll try to see if I can adopt something along those lines. Thanks.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#49

Post by philh »

dakrisht wrote: post #5

Gotta love Woz. So humble, such a brilliant mind, a pure hacker at heart. Need more guys like him and less turds like Mark Pincus (first one that comes to mind).

> less turds like Mark Pincus

Does that sound like the sort of thing Woz would say?

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#50

Post by flatline »

david927 wrote: post #27
enraged_camel wrote: post #24

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

If you're not a manager, it's not your job to criticize others. You can privately let the manager know why you think there was a failure, but that's just your opinion, the manager may see it differently. If you are a manager, while it is your job to occasionally criticize performance, it is never your job to criticize people. Further, if someone is "fucking up constantly," it's your fault. Do they understand the requ…

Wow, that sounds like a terrible work environment. I much prefer a self-regulating team. It is much less stressful in my opinion to be called out on problems quickly, and by your peers, than to have to have a "talk" with your manager, perhaps weeks or months after there was a problem that you could easily have fixed. I've seen more dysfunctional teams from this type of attitude than I've seen functional ones. If a team member is having a problem, they often know it, but don't know why they are rubbing everyone wrong and then they get worse from stress and trying to fix the wrong things. By the time the manager steps in, it is often too late, and a problem that should have been nipped in the bud has spiralled out of control.
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