What Your Startup Culture Really Says: the toxic lies afoot in Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: What Your Startup Culture Really Says: the toxic lies afoot in Silicon Valley

#41

Post by ChuckMcM » Fri, Feb 22, 2013, 4:44 AM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #30

ChuckMcM wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, let's not confuse ourselves though. Shanley's blog post asserted as motivation malice (vicious lies) to some common phrases used to describe some company cultures. She didn't really support any of her argument and used a lot of emotionally charged language that I interpreted to mean she had been told that she wasn't a good 'culture fit' for a job. harryh here, felt I was being dismissive (pejoratively) o…

I've seen people cut from the hiring process for having the wrong religion, gussied up as "culture fit." I was, as it happens, also that religion, but I was in the closet so they didn't know. People of differing cultures can easily co-exist, just as long as one culture isn't trying to eliminate the other. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliminationism

It is a problem, my nephew ended up getting his manager fired for attempting to steer the hiring practices from "too much diversity" which was just code for racism. It is incumbent on employees and managers to call out and correct behaviors like this.

I would assert that stating it as a company value that the company seeks to hire all qualified candidates, and a company mandate to report and investigate and if necessary correct any potential discrimination as a strong culture statement. That would be a excellent example of the benefit of a strong company culture. If gave my nephew the courage to speak up, and it made their environment better.

Re: What Your Startup Culture Really Says: the toxic lies afoot in Silicon Valley

#42

Post by mindstab » Fri, Feb 22, 2013, 3:04 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #40

tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that asking the questions she asked about different elements of startup culture was in fact a useful exercise.

You didn't answer my question :-) That's okay of course. When I read her thesis it struck me as so patently false, I found myself asking the question "What sort of event set this off?" not "Are there insights here I should consider?" A neighbor of mine had his home seized by the bank, it was underwater, and they weren't willing to negotiate the terms of the loan. He posted a piece that was not a whole lot different t…

I'll weigh in, I had no problem with her thesis. What about it did you have a problem with?

As for her questions, they weren't a blanket judgement, more sometimes this is how far wrong what you say with good intention can go. It's a warning. And I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to back each up with at least one example which is all that's needed to demonstrate we need to be more careful and more aware of our internal company culture.

Re: What Your Startup Culture Really Says: the toxic lies afoot in Silicon Valley

#43

Post by mindstab » Fri, Feb 22, 2013, 3:13 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #24

harryh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I think you answered your question, the effect is not fucked up, the effect is that the team doesn't get > distracted and this possible future employee doesn't feel alienated. Paypal avoided hiring people who would > feel bad at work, Stripe gave their interviewers a way to ask themselves "how do you really feel about hiring > this person." I agree that the effect is that the team doesn't get distracted. I agree…

We can be pedantic, but lets not. "> Stipulate her assertion: We reject qualified candidates based on superficial and unimportant reasons. Go ask a random person on the street if rejecting a job applicant because they said the word "hoops" is a superficial or unimportant reason. 99 times out of 100 they'll say yes." Isn't that leaving off a bit of context? Ask them if "Hiring someone who plays hoops on to a team that…

> Isn't that leaving off a bit of context? Ask them if "Hiring someone who plays hoops on to a team that thinks basketball is a stupid waste of time and recently campaigned against tax payer funding of a local venue for an NBA team." is a smart idea.

There is a big difference between someone who plays some basket ball after work with some friends for their weekly exercise as opposed to what ever white male programmers are doing for sport to stay healthy (... nothing?) to pro sport NBA level players. This is a ridiculous argument.

I rock climb for my sport at work. No one else does. We haven't all gotten into huge arguments or ever been massively distracted by it. Some other people play badminton. Soem go to the gym. Some run. Some swim. Honestly, personal sport preference differences haven't destroyed our company opr even impacted it.

In fact I'm getting pretty tired of this defence of the thesis that "diversity is bad" because that's unproven and in fact I submit it's garbage. I'll posit diversity is actually good and makes things stronger.

But at this point with out either of us providing back up we're pretty much arguing for different world views and aren't going to get much further