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WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

ejohn.org

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Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#41

Post by RaphiePS »

hemancuso wrote: post #27

In the past there was some amount of competitive advantage in owning the rendering/browser engine. You could add unique features, fix things your competitors wouldn't, whatever. These days performance is heavily driven by the javascript runtime. While it's challenging to write a browser engine, it is much much more challenging to write a really fast JIT'ing javascript runtime. It seems unlikely Opera would have been…

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well may be), but isn't the JS runtime separate from the rendering engine?

I was under the impression that Chrome uses WebKit for rendering and V8 for JS.

So, even if Opera switches over to WebKit, that shouldn't affect JS.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#42

Post by astral303 »

cs702 wrote: post #4

WebKit and jQuery -- and Bootstrap -- are becoming the new 'Win32 API.'

I don't see that connection at all. How at all are they similar to the 'Win32 API'? Win32 API was required to write Windows applications. It's like saying that WebKit and jQuery are becoming HTML4. Does not compute.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#43

Post by Yaggo »

"I don’t think anyone can successfully argue that Chome/Chromium isn’t a better browser than Safari [...]"

That sounds like Chrome was somehow superior to Safari. Chrome has some nice features that Safari lacks (and vice versa) but from browser engine perspective they are definitely on par.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#44

Post by AdamTReineke »

RaphiePS wrote: post #41
hemancuso wrote: post #27

In the past there was some amount of competitive advantage in owning the rendering/browser engine. You could add unique features, fix things your competitors wouldn't, whatever. These days performance is heavily driven by the javascript runtime. While it's challenging to write a browser engine, it is much much more challenging to write a really fast JIT'ing javascript runtime. It seems unlikely Opera would have been…

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well may be), but isn't the JS runtime separate from the rendering engine? I was under the impression that Chrome uses WebKit for rendering and V8 for JS. So, even if Opera switches over to WebKit, that shouldn't affect JS.

You're right. The point he is making is that there is no need to maintain a rendering engine if it is no longer a point of differentiation when you can focus your efforts on improving the features that make your browser stand out.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#45

Post by wvenable »

cs702 wrote: post #4

WebKit and jQuery -- and Bootstrap -- are becoming the new 'Win32 API.'

Why say Win32? Why not say WebKit and jQuery are the new Linux? It's actually a better analogy.

Software monoculture is not inherently a bad thing; it can be a good thing. Re-inventing the wheel isn't progress. The world is much better off with Linux than 20 different Unix variants. And the world is likely better off with WebKit than dozens of different browser variants.

The issue isn't having a software monoculture, it's who is in control of it. The situation with both Linux and WebKit is that we have all the benefits of a monoculture and very few of the downsides.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#46

Post by dclowd9901 »

spicyj wrote: post #10
StavrosK wrote: post #7

I like the arguments: "Don't worry about happening, because it's already happened!"

"…because it's already happened and the world hasn't exploded ." It's hard to know now what the very–long-term effects will be but John's point that the web has benefited from Chrome's creation is hard to argue with. As for whether it's benefited more or less than if Chrome had used a different rendering engine, we'll never know…

I think we should at least touch on the real reason Chrome is the de facto standard and baseline for web page rendering: it's essentially to front end development what IntelliJ is to backend.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#47

Post by phpnode »

oinksoft wrote: post #40
phpnode wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but still the majority of them do, by a wide margin. I don't even know why you're debating this, it's completely obvious that jQuery has by far the largest mindshare. edit: ok now I get it, I had a look at your website. You like Closure so jQuery must suck, right? Also I would be in the hospital after 5 shots....

Well, don't provide a test like "you'll be in the hospital by #20" if you haven't vetted the results of it first. My personal advocacy for the Closure Tools does not discredit my views on other tools, and I'm hoping this ad hominem nonsense doesn't fly in such a forum. Quite a few people come into the IRC channel and are using the Closure Compiler with jQuery and I don't give them shit. I take no issue with you using…

you're right in that I should have checked first, and really if you think about it it's no surprise that YouTube, Yahoo, Google etc are using their own tools. That does not detract from the point that jQuery has massive, ridiculous mind share and completely dominates the web though. Your point about it being impossible to build a gmail style app in jQuery is extremely dubious. There are an awful lot of complicated JS apps built on jQuery.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#49

Post by RaphiePS »

AdamTReineke wrote: post #44
RaphiePS wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well may be), but isn't the JS runtime separate from the rendering engine? I was under the impression that Chrome uses WebKit for rendering and V8 for JS. So, even if Opera switches over to WebKit, that shouldn't affect JS.

You're right. The point he is making is that there is no need to maintain a rendering engine if it is no longer a point of differentiation when you can focus your efforts on improving the features that make your browser stand out.

Ahh, looks like I misunderstood, thanks.

But will developers/users really flock to Opera just because it has a fast JIT? For me, Opera is just something to check for compliance.

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