Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

plus.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 61 posts

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#41

Post by tedunangst »

jlgreco wrote: post #39
taligent wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> his obsession with Pamela Jones is rather unnerving As someone who follows both it actually started with PJ and for a long while Florian never responded. And even the responses were far more professional than PJ's usually hyperbolic posts. And being paid by a company does not make you a shill. Bias comes in many, many forms and the only way to cut through it is to provide facts.

Their professional interaction is not what I find unnerving, but rather Florian's insistence that she reveal herself personally, as well as the rest of his general interaction with her. It puts off seriously creepy vibes. So maybe you are right. Maybe this isn't always about money to him, and is some other sort of obsession.

So it's ok for PJ to hide, but not for Florian? How did you draw that line?

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#42

Post by CamperBob2 »

monochromatic wrote: post #25
noonespecial wrote: post #24

So we're at the point where the actual patents are entirely pretext. The words written on them are now completely irrelevant. They're just proxies for money.

No, we're still at the point where alarmist headlines from people who don't know how to read a patent get lots of karma. We've been here for a long time now.

You seem rather strident in your defense of this patent. What exactly are they claiming, beyond scheduling milkman-like deliveries with the added text "with a computer"?

If that's all there is to it, then why would you defend such an outrageous patent? If that's not all there is to it, what else is there?

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#43

Post by DannyBee »

rayiner wrote: post #34
jlgreco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FOSSPatents == Florian And sources: http://www.dailytech.com/Top+AntiAndroid+Blogger+Florian+Mue... http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57440902-94/microsoft-legal... As fair as I am concerned, anything he says he is saying because he is being paid, wants to be paid to continue saying it, or wants to be paid to stop saying it. Well, that or because he is bored and hasn't harassed PJ recently; his obsession with Pamela J…

"Has done legal consulting work for Microsoft" == "paid shill" I'd love to live on your planet and see what color the sky is...

So you don't believe the "legal consulting" was "posting legal analysis on his blog"?

I wonder what you think it is, since he has literally no legal background at all. He also finally admitted he was engaged by oracle to do roughly the same.

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#44

Post by jlgreco »

tedunangst wrote: post #41
jlgreco wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their professional interaction is not what I find unnerving, but rather Florian's insistence that she reveal herself personally, as well as the rest of his general interaction with her. It puts off seriously creepy vibes. So maybe you are right. Maybe this isn't always about money to him, and is some other sort of obsession.

So it's ok for PJ to hide, but not for Florian? How did you draw that line?

There is a keen difference between questioning not even who someone's employer is but merely if that employer is a particular firm that they are defending, and demanding that someone who wishes to remain anonymous reveal their identity.

The fact that Florian likes to brag about his dubious credentials while PJ lets her analysis stand on its own merit really adds to it. Florian believes his identity to be vital to the worth of what he says, PJ thinks the opposite of herself.

Go read some of Florian's rants about PJ, and tell me with a straight face that you don't find it creepy and are surprised that she would choose to keep identity out of it.

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#45

Post by j-g-faustus »

notintokyo wrote: post #32
j-g-faustus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still doesn't sound very impressive if you translate it to plain English: A computer-implemented method for providing recurring delivery of products, the method comprising performing instructions under the control of a computer system for: Create a list on a computer. receiving at the computer system a designation of a delivery slot and a recurring delivery list comprising one or more list items, each of the one o…

Also, wouldn't all those hundreds of "box of the month"-style subscription sites where you can pick a product to send and get it periodically be prior art?

I believe patents work by making the description impenetrable enough to make the examiner's eyes glaze over.

So they approve the patent in self-defense, and don't notice that it's just a list of trivialities.

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#46

Post by cynwoody »

There is abundant prior art on this one.

E.g., one casualty of the dot-com bubble was Streamline, an online grocery delivery company. They called their version of the invention Don't Run Out. Fast Company raved about it in this article dated July 31, 1998:

    What happens when customers depend on you - and you deliver?
    They decide to depend on you even more. One of Streamline's most
    popular services is called Don't Run Out. Families identify
    their must-have items - milk, toilet paper, diapers, pet food -
    and authorize the company to replenish their stock of each item
    automatically. Today almost every Streamline household uses
    Don't Run Out. The average household has standing orders for
    more than 10 items. "It's extraordinary," says [Gina] Wilcox. "The
    consumer makes a purchase decision once, and we fill the order
    throughout the year. It redefines brand loyalty. It redefines
    marketing."
http://www.fastcompany.com/34524/streamline-delivers-goods

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#47

Post by monochromatic »

j-g-faustus wrote: post #45
notintokyo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, wouldn't all those hundreds of "box of the month"-style subscription sites where you can pick a product to send and get it periodically be prior art?

I believe patents work by making the description impenetrable enough to make the examiner's eyes glaze over. So they approve the patent in self-defense, and don't notice that it's just a list of trivialities.

Do you believe this based on anything in particular?

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#48

Post by monochromatic »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #42
monochromatic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we're still at the point where alarmist headlines from people who don't know how to read a patent get lots of karma. We've been here for a long time now.

You seem rather strident in your defense of this patent. What exactly are they claiming, beyond scheduling milkman-like deliveries with the added text "with a computer"? If that's all there is to it, then why would you defend such an outrageous patent? If that's not all there is to it, what else is there?

I don't have a dog in this fight. This is the first I've seen of this patent, and I've only just barely glanced at claim 1. I'm not here to argue the merits, which could easily take hours and pages.

What I have a problem with (and what happens so depressingly often) is people saying "OMG they got a patent for {what the abstract says}! I can think of so much prior art, the examiner must be brain dead!"

Now, various examiners do work all along the quality spectrum. But it is almost never that simple, and this ignorant, arrogant shit has got to go.

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#49

Post by nhebb »

Fargren wrote: post #2

"What is claimed is: 1. A computer-implemented method(...)" Mmm, I'm to young to have seen an actual milkman, but television never depicted them as "computer-implemented"

Schwan's has been delivering dairy products for 60 years. You can set up recurring deliveries online (i.e., computer implemented).

http://www.schwans.com/

Re: Amazon has patented the milkman, etc.

#50

Post by j-g-faustus »

monochromatic wrote: post #47
j-g-faustus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe patents work by making the description impenetrable enough to make the examiner's eyes glaze over. So they approve the patent in self-defense, and don't notice that it's just a list of trivialities.

Do you believe this based on anything in particular?

It's the only explanation I can find for the fact that patents like this are approved :)

(My alternative hypothesis revolves around evil conspiracies to extend property rights into the realm of generic ideas, with the aim to create a modern equivalent to the medieval landed gentry who can get rich entirely by rent-seeking[1]. All in all, I prefer the "examiners don't understand what they approve" explanation :)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

Post reply on HN