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Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

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Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#41

Post by bornhuetter »

Eliezer wrote: post #36

Are you offering to pay for Java development and maintenance? I mean... someone has to. How is this not a case of demanding things for free? If the petition were asking Oracle to establish a nonprofit that could support Java and offering to pay the first $10,000 toward it, I'd have a quite different reaction. But this seems to me no different from agitating for "free healthcare" without even mentioning who might pay…

The petition doesn't ask for it to be free. Personally I have no problems with them including adverts, and they can make money by providing additional tools and services. The problem is that they are bundling borderline malware, using deceptive techniques.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#42

Post by Apreche »

Petition: Programmers, stop using the Oracle versions of Java. Too many of your Java programs only work properly with Oracle JVM, etc. Instead, standardize on another one of the Java implementations so that it can become the premiere implementation and really screw with Oracle.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#43

Post by camperman »

asveikau wrote: post #27
meaty wrote: post #10

You mean: stop bundling crapware with our crapware! Note: I have no problem with Java on the server or client, just the applet and browser plugin model.

I remember a time when java applets were cool. I don't think it's a bad idea entirely, just dated, and eclipsed by other technologies.

Perhaps eclipsed is not the best choice of words here :)

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#44

Post by cmiles74 »

imglorp wrote: post #29

If you're reading this, you're probably too small. I believe ORCL wants to drive off all their nuisance D and E customers, which is all the riffraff not paying them $50m/yr. After taking over Sun, they've moved all the good stuff behind a paywall, jacked the cost of legacy products and of supporting them, added onerous contracts with stiff penalties. For example, if you ever drop support, there's a big fine to rejoin…

I believe the crapware bundling was started by Sun, it predates acquisition.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#45

Post by omershapira »

Eliezer wrote: post #36

Are you offering to pay for Java development and maintenance? I mean... someone has to. How is this not a case of demanding things for free? If the petition were asking Oracle to establish a nonprofit that could support Java and offering to pay the first $10,000 toward it, I'd have a quite different reaction. But this seems to me no different from agitating for "free healthcare" without even mentioning who might pay…

To be fair, Oracle is (or was planning on) making heaps of money out of Java for business. Client-side Java seems like less than a portion of their plan to start with (anyone who mentions JavaFX here gets banned from the internet) - I mean, start with hiring a designer for the download page. This disrespect to users is exactly why they're treating it that way. If it's not that important to them, might as well import com.oracle.money-making-addon; No big deal either way.

Anyway, as someone who regularly writes software for artists and designers with Java, I lately find myself avoiding JVM-based workflow on the client-side. It's just too much of a hassle for anyone I work with.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#46

Post by brudgers »

This petition is complaining about the neighbor on your left letting his dog crap in your yard, when the neighbor on the right is running a meth lab. We are carrying around phones filled with spyware to track what we listen to, watch and read an where we do it.

How hard is it to discern even our sleep habits? We put them on the charger beside the bed at night and tune in to Pandora. If our phones can't tell if we're sleeping around or alcoholics already, it won't be long until they can.

Like most petitions this one is a distraction. It keeps our energy focused on the wrong part of a larger issue and one where any leverage we have cannot create fundamental change.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#47

Post by tatsuke95 »

tobiasu wrote: post #15

On the contrary, please continue. Improve it by adding BonziBuddy and friends. Please please please ruin your already non-existent reputation, Oracle. Help ordinary people who have no idea what Oracle is, connect your name with spam and spyware (and security problems, ofc).

Hear, hear.

Oracle has the right to bundle whatever crap-ware they want. If that sullies their reputation or draws out alternatives, that's a good thing.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#49

Post by glogla »

tobiasu wrote: post #15

On the contrary, please continue. Improve it by adding BonziBuddy and friends. Please please please ruin your already non-existent reputation, Oracle. Help ordinary people who have no idea what Oracle is, connect your name with spam and spyware (and security problems, ofc).

I think Gator might be a good choice too.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#50

Post by freehunter »

brudgers wrote: post #46

This petition is complaining about the neighbor on your left letting his dog crap in your yard, when the neighbor on the right is running a meth lab. We are carrying around phones filled with spyware to track what we listen to, watch and read an where we do it. How hard is it to discern even our sleep habits? We put them on the charger beside the bed at night and tune in to Pandora. If our phones can't tell if we're…

And what do you propose Microsoft or Apple would do with the knowledge that I'm an alcoholic who is cheating on my wife? Why would they care? They're in business to make money, and there's not much money in extortion, not for long. If my phone called my wife automatically to tell her where I was and what I was doing, it wouldn't be long before no one bought that phone and Apple went out of business from the privacy lawsuits.

Yeah, we carry devices that are spying on us. Why do they spy? To sell us more stuff. They don't try to hide that fact. Your fearmongering is off topic here, and fairly irrelevant elsewhere too.

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