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Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

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Re: Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

#41

Post by Androsynth »

sbmassey wrote: post #38
igravious wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where on earth did you get that reading from? Just because someone wishes for the artificial divisions that divide us to melt away does not they want a return to imperial hegemony. Your comment reflects more on your euro-skepticism than the claims you are making of the grandparent.

The EU is all about setting up a centralised governing power over Europe. Given that Europe contains many different cultures, this will inevitably be an Imperial government, since there is no single demos with broad agreement on policy to be represented by the European state. The EU is really the last thing Europe needs: all the European creativity and energy over the last few centuries has come from competition betw…

The US is experience the type of issues that all empires experience as they transition from plateau to decline (crushing bureaucracy, close ties between business and state, overwhelming federal debt, etc etc). Whats interesting is that the EU is trying its hardest to emulate those issues without actually ascending to an empire itself. They are copying an empire in decline. The EU is a cargo cult.

Re: Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

#42

Post by Androsynth »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28
nagrom wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure whether you are pro- or anti-EU with that comment... You are aware that the union in year 1 was effectively a somewhat brutal dictatorship imposed by force where human life was treated as a toy for an elite caste that ruled from afar, right? There was no 'EU community' then. There was the brutal rule of hierarchical violence and fealty to pay to a foreign emperor. Regardless of what you think of the EU, the…

Should be a link to "Life of Brian" here - where Cleese says "What have the Romans every given us? Nothun'!" and a cell member raises his hand. "The Aquaduct?" "Oh yeah, the Aquaduct, yeah, that." And on and on until they have a long list of improvements instituted by the Romans.

Its easy for entertainers to make that joke. But history has shown that in general, people prefer independence over technology.

Re: Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

#45

Post by _b8r0 »

onemorepassword wrote: post #24
jfaucett wrote: post #3

I especially found the map of europe Year 1 vs 2000 interesting. Hopefully, it won't take another 2k years for the EU to grow back together as a community. Of course, there are the intermittent 2k years that have divided us, but if you compare the progress over the last 50 to the previous roughly 2k I think we've done quit well.

Yeah, we really dream of being swallowed up and exploited by a greater empire again, because we haven't had enough of that fun yet in the period between the Roman empire and the 3rd Reich... There's no "back together" because there has never been a together that wasn't under the sword or the gun in the first place. Peace, cooperation and wide open borders within the EU, great. The EU as the next empire, no thanks. If…

Not to mention the former Soviet members of the EU, some of whom have had the opportunity to be swallowed up by other empires several times now.

Re: Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

#46

Post by _b8r0 »

jfaucett wrote: post #10
d_theorist wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment exposes the elitist Europhile mindset beautifully. Yes, another Roman Empire to allow a small imperial caste to rule the entire continent is exactly what they are aiming for.

That's not what I meant to convey at all. The idea is that cultures that have a different history, a history of conflict, blood and war - as one would probably guess just by observing the lines on this map - can come together, work together and overcome their different antagonistic histories, in order to attain peace. If other states were to join, islamic states, such as Turkey, and it were to work, this would be an…

> If other states were to join, islamic states, such as Turkey, and it were to work, this would be an even more amazing historical event.

Can you define 'Islamic state'? Turkey is a secular democratic republic. Admittedly one run by religious nutjobs with delusions of grandeur at the moment, but it is technically a secular republic, not an islamic state, and does not identify as such.

Also, for Turkey to join the EU, the EU would have to provide an incentive that at the moment does not exist. Turkey has good tariffs and trade agreements with many EU states and having it's own currency.

Re: Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

#47

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Androsynth wrote: post #42
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should be a link to "Life of Brian" here - where Cleese says "What have the Romans every given us? Nothun'!" and a cell member raises his hand. "The Aquaduct?" "Oh yeah, the Aquaduct, yeah, that." And on and on until they have a long list of improvements instituted by the Romans.

Its easy for entertainers to make that joke. But history has shown that in general, people prefer independence over technology.

Sure, but they have to be alive to appreciate anything. You can make the argument: providing public safety, armed police, clean safe water and medicine, Romans saved far more lives than they ever hurt.

Re: Periodis Web – A Historical Atlas and Gazetteer of Europe from Year 1 to 2000

#49

Post by Svip »

huxley wrote: post #40
Svip wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am already reading Edward Gibbon's The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire , and while research since its conception may have disputed certain facts unknown at Gibbon's time (it was published in 1776), it is still an excellent detailed account of the Roman Empire from 170s and onward, without ever getting boring, because of Gibbon's excellent prose.

A good popular history of the other side of the "Fall of the Roman Empire" is "Terry Jones' Barbarians". I scare-quote "Fall of the Roman Empire" because even though Rome itself was sacked, the Eastern half of the Roman Empire kept going for another millennium, though known to us moderns as the Byzantine Empire (it was known to all contemporaries merely as The Roman Empire).

Just FYI, Gibbon goes all the way to the fall of Constantinople. He refers to it as Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire later on.
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