Backbone.js v0.9.10 Released • Hacker News Board

Re: Backbone.js v0.9.10 Released

#41

Post by melc » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 8:39 AM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #22

tlarkworthy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write and use alot of software. Normally number crunching on servers. However, I recently started seriously learning javascript. I had avoided HTML/javascript for years as they were horrible systems to develop in compared to every other type of software system in existence. However, with HTML 5 + cloud computing platforms I thought these systems are probably mature enough to start using. Anyway, so I learnt javascr…

> YOU CAN DO 95% OF PRESENTATION LOGIC IN THE HTML For us developers that have fought for years for separation between content, presentation, and logic, this is the very reason Angular/Ember/Knockout are not as popular as Backbone or other frameworks.

i've been using ember for some time now for a complex application and everything seems to be clearly separated. Easily integrated with jqm and generally its model and controllers can be used effortlessly by other frameworks as well. Actually the complexity depends on the context and kind of integration.

Re: Backbone.js v0.9.10 Released

#42

Post by tlarkworthy » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 8:40 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #22

tlarkworthy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write and use alot of software. Normally number crunching on servers. However, I recently started seriously learning javascript. I had avoided HTML/javascript for years as they were horrible systems to develop in compared to every other type of software system in existence. However, with HTML 5 + cloud computing platforms I thought these systems are probably mature enough to start using. Anyway, so I learnt javascr…

> YOU CAN DO 95% OF PRESENTATION LOGIC IN THE HTML For us developers that have fought for years for separation between content, presentation, and logic, this is the very reason Angular/Ember/Knockout are not as popular as Backbone or other frameworks.

Note I said presentation logic, not application logic. Deciding when a button should grey out etc. is presentation logic. Its the kind of thing you fiddle with after you have your basic system done. I don't believe these minor look and feel stuff should be in the same boat as real application logic.

Re: Backbone.js v0.9.10 Released

#43

Post by tlarkworthy » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 8:43 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #22

tlarkworthy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write and use alot of software. Normally number crunching on servers. However, I recently started seriously learning javascript. I had avoided HTML/javascript for years as they were horrible systems to develop in compared to every other type of software system in existence. However, with HTML 5 + cloud computing platforms I thought these systems are probably mature enough to start using. Anyway, so I learnt javascr…

> YOU CAN DO 95% OF PRESENTATION LOGIC IN THE HTML For us developers that have fought for years for separation between content, presentation, and logic, this is the very reason Angular/Ember/Knockout are not as popular as Backbone or other frameworks.

Note I said presentation logic, not application logic. Deciding when a button should grey out etc. is presentation logic. Its the kind of thing you fiddle with after you have your basic system done. I don't believe these minor look and feel stuff should be in the same boat as business application logic. Note you said fighting with content, presentation, and logic. In desktop apps MVC architectures are trivial to implement, no framework necessary. HTML JS are the things that are fighting you. In angular it doesn't. Complex presentation goes in directives (custom HTML tags! Woo! OO comes to HTML). Trivial boolean stuff can stay in the HTML. Business logic goes in the scoped controllers (woo, encapsulation made easy in JS).

Re: Backbone.js v0.9.10 Released

#44

Post by tlarkworthy » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 10:03 PM UTC

aerolite wrote: post #19

tlarkworthy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write and use alot of software. Normally number crunching on servers. However, I recently started seriously learning javascript. I had avoided HTML/javascript for years as they were horrible systems to develop in compared to every other type of software system in existence. However, with HTML 5 + cloud computing platforms I thought these systems are probably mature enough to start using. Anyway, so I learnt javascr…

Ugh, but this is just terrible: I guess I'm a purist.

You must like bloating your project with pages of trivial javascript accomplishing trivial functionality.

I really don't want basic stuff in my application logic.

Allowing users to flip arbitrary booleans is a bit like declaring a public variable though. You can of course make them go through a setter if you prefer encapsulation.