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Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

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Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#41

Post by epoxyhockey »

agwa wrote: post #19

Though I'd like to see Oritz fired, and think she's deserving of it, the effort to get her fired is blinding us to a bigger problem and a proper solution. The system was broken long before Oritz and Swartz, but it wasn't until it affected someone we like that we noticed. But we're in a bubble, and the vast majority of Americans do not care who Aaron Swartz is, will not be affected by this tragedy like we were, and in…

You make lots of good points, especially by stating that getting Oritz fired should not be the end-goal. A larger effort will be needed to start swaying the general population's opinion on tough-on-crime policies.

There are many ways to approach the problem, but every resolution needs a beginning. That is how I view the Oritz initiative: a beginning. I'm sure that other government workers are taking notice and will likely adjust their behavior in the future, even if we can't quantify it. In that sense we've already made progress.

I only wish this effort could have begun under less tragic circumstances.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#42

Post by davemel37 »

I seem to recall a story about a Pepsi employee who made a bad decision that cost Pepsi over 10 million dollars. The CEO called him into his office, and the employee shuffled in saying, "I guess you are gonna fire me now." To which the CEO Exclaimed, "Fire You?! I Just Spent 10 million dollars educating you!"

Just something to think about here.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#43

Post by ryguytilidie »

npsimons wrote: post #24
numbsafari wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Lawrence Lessig's essay titled "Prosecutor as Bully", he writes the following in his last paragraph: Somehow, we need to get beyond the "I'm right so I'm right to nuke you" ethics that dominates our time. If that's the case, threatening "vigilante justice" based on 25,000 signatures would seem to indicate those who want to see action against the prosecutors have failed to learn that lesson and are only interested…

Let's try to eliminate the equivocating, shall we? One the one hand, we have someone who was being threatened with being imprisoned for half his life, for doing something that couldn't have possibly merited that kind of retribution. On the other hand, we have a person being threatened with being removed from an position of power so that she (hopefully) can't abuse power over others again. She most likely will be able…

Yeah I love how people keep acting like "oh, his life was ruined so now you need to ruin hers?" NO, we need to make her not have the power to ruin more lives. If because of this, her and her millionaire husband manage to rationalize this as their lives being ruined while not caring about the kid's death they are responsible for than that really tells one everything they would need to know about the content of their character.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#44

Post by greghinch »

thomasvendetta wrote: post #3

Petition to fire accomplice Steve Heymann still needs 22k more: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/fire-assistant-us-...

This one is arguably more important. The more I read about this guy, the more he sounds like the real bully

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#45

Post by protomyth »

numbsafari wrote: post #7
fr0sty wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main point is that action in government is slow. And for good reason. If people want to hold onto the fantasy that when a bunch of people get angry, the government will take drastic action...then fine... Sandy Hook was one month ago and the President is having a big news conference tomorrow about the administrations response re: gun violence. Is that "slow"? "drastic action"? something else?

It's 25 dead children who were completely innocent of any crime. It's an incident in a long line of incidents over many decades in which many innocent people were killed. I think you need to calibrate your moral barometer a bit better.

It was a tragedy, but.....

Violence as a cause of death has continued to drop in the US. It is no longer in the top 15 ways people die in the US[1]. The worst year for massacres in the US was 1929 and worst occurred in 1927 (45 dead by explosive).

Yet suicide is in the top 10 and mental illness is under funded. Risk factors are what the President should concentrate on, not the incident of the moment. A President coming up to the podium and announcing a serious attempt at dealing with mental illness in this country would fix more problems than something that is declining without the President's attention.

1) http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#46

Post by mcantelon »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #43
npsimons wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's try to eliminate the equivocating, shall we? One the one hand, we have someone who was being threatened with being imprisoned for half his life, for doing something that couldn't have possibly merited that kind of retribution. On the other hand, we have a person being threatened with being removed from an position of power so that she (hopefully) can't abuse power over others again. She most likely will be able…

Yeah I love how people keep acting like "oh, his life was ruined so now you need to ruin hers?" NO, we need to make her not have the power to ruin more lives. If because of this, her and her millionaire husband manage to rationalize this as their lives being ruined while not caring about the kid's death they are responsible for than that really tells one everything they would need to know about the content of their c…

Her losing her position would prevent her from having the power to ruin more lives, no?

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#47

Post by ceol »

I'm not sure what this petition is trying to accomplish. Do you think, should the President fire Ms Ortiz, she would be replaced by someone completely different? Her actions are a reflection of the entire justice system; the person who replaces her will continue with the same bullying, "String 'em up in Town Square"-style tactics as she did. Everything will continue as it has been, but now the affluent, Bay-area 20-somethings who were originally so outraged will kick up their feet and go back to not caring about the justice system because they think they effected some sort of change.

I was so surprised with the HN community's response. So many people saw that Aaron had committed suicide and thought, with their ninja-rockstar-hacker intelligence, that we should go on a witch-hunt and burn Ms Ortiz at the stake. Doesn't that seem like the worst possible thing to do in a time when we have very little facts?

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#48

Post by mcantelon »

agwa wrote: post #19

Though I'd like to see Oritz fired, and think she's deserving of it, the effort to get her fired is blinding us to a bigger problem and a proper solution. The system was broken long before Oritz and Swartz, but it wasn't until it affected someone we like that we noticed. But we're in a bubble, and the vast majority of Americans do not care who Aaron Swartz is, will not be affected by this tragedy like we were, and in…

>it's a problem we'll never be able to solve if we're blinded by trying to exact vengeance on a prosecutor

The two goals are not mutually exclusive. If she's fired that will help bring attention to prosecutorial abuse.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#49

Post by jetti »

fr0sty wrote: post #6
danso wrote: post #4

> Overall, there is a feeling that Aaron Swartz’ death has to mark the beginning of a change. This petition could be a ticket and an opportunity for the administration to begin such a change, if nothing else, just by firing an overreaching prosecutor. That would be a symbolic action that would still send a message, albeit a weak one, but it would go a long way for many. In contrast, a nonaction from the administratio…

> The main point is that action in government is slow. And for good reason. If people want to hold onto the fantasy that when a bunch of people get angry, the government will take drastic action...then fine... Sandy Hook was one month ago and the President is having a big news conference tomorrow about the administrations response re: gun violence. Is that "slow"? "drastic action"? something else?

But let's see if anything actually gets done. Smoke and mirrors to appear to do something is different from actually doing something.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#50

Post by sageikosa »

kamjam wrote: post #36
numbsafari wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 25 dead children who were completely innocent of any crime. It's an incident in a long line of incidents over many decades in which many innocent people were killed. I think you need to calibrate your moral barometer a bit better.

So how many deaths of individuals threatened with 30 years of prison for minor crimes does it take before this becomes an issue? We supposedly live in a civilised society I would say 1 death is 1 too many.

We are living in a post-civilized society, insofar as civilization implies city-rooted social order. We live in the era of continent-scaled nation-states.
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