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Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

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Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#41

Post by wes-exp »

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

One probably wouldn't think the "Better Business Bureau" (BBB) is a scam, either. But the BBB is known for shaking down businesses and having them pay up to obtain a good rating. As is Yelp.

I think the real problem here is trusting ratings organizations to objectively "rate" companies when they have an incentive to extract money from those companies.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#42

Post by killahpriest »

apike wrote: post #5

Upon actually completing the form, it currently responds that it is "currently unavailable". Still, I'll definitely be bookmarking this and coming back - if the article is correct, this is really helpful. Will be good to hand to clients too.

Same.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#43

Post by illuminate »

nhebb wrote: post #8
michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

D&B makes money selling their rating information, but while a DUNS number is free, you have to pay to manage your rating. I can't recall the exact wording but the salesman's phone pitch bordered on "Nice little business you got there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to your DUNS rating." These two links share similar experiences: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.505486.1... http://www.cartoonb…

"while a DUNS number is free, you have to pay to manage your rating"

Sounds like they're going with the Better Business Bureau's model, only with less consumer pretense that they're a legitimate governmental agency with the power to do anything and less charitable "we're a volunteer-staffed agency and thus neutral" airs.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#44

Post by betterunix »

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

"It's a useful tool used in the real world of business."

Tool? It does not sound like a tool, at least not based on your description:

"Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay?"

...sounds kind of like a credit rating service...

"Want to get and Federal work?"

...sounds like bureaucracy.

It sounds to me like DUNS is a service, not a "tool," and that they are the sort of service that slows everyone and everything down. It should come as no surprise that it is a pain for lone coders: it was designed for expansive bureaucracies, and it has the effect of further expanding those bureaucracies.

I have to wonder what it is that Apple hopes to gain by using this system. Why do they even bother to uniquely identify app developers? Why not just issue a signing key every time someone pays their fee? It sounds like DUNS is just another way for Apple to exclude small operations and focus on the large operations that make most of the popular apps in their app store.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#45

Post by Zaephyr »

When I applied for a number under the 'free' option, D&B said they would to contact the company. However, they would never leave a voicemail - the 'accounting' IVR option goes straight VM because it's not a full time position.

When I called them I was told I need some ~$700/yr service if I wanted to initiate the process on that phone call (though it was strongly recommend that I go with $1500/yr option).

Some time later, using their business search function, I found that they had issued a number for my company.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#46

Post by eduardordm »

jpdoctor wrote: post #38

Completely agree. And the fact that D&B gets to sell the info? Inexcusable. This is a service that is simply begging for some competition, and I'm waiting for a startup entrant.

Actually, the info is already public, they just offer some sort of web service. They do have competitors: PwC, S&P, BBB, Moody's but they do not offer the 'registration' service alone, they want to rate the company which is somewhat expensive.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#47

Post by OrionSeven »

Well DUNS isn't exactly a scam, it does help identify the uniqueness and the validity of a business. But...

1) It's painful to use (horrible navigation) and they constantly try to up-sell you (thus the horrible navigation).

2) If you need to correct information on your DUNS account it takes forever.

This is what happened to me while getting my Apple Developer Account. There are multiple departments at D&B , ones that can only verify domains, or others that look up your business information. They coordinate very poorly. For whatever reason they already had my business, but old information and the incorrect domain. It ended up taking 3 tries and six weeks for D&B to update my information.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#48

Post by illuminate »

wes-exp wrote: post #41
michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

One probably wouldn't think the "Better Business Bureau" (BBB) is a scam, either. But the BBB is known for shaking down businesses and having them pay up to obtain a good rating. As is Yelp. I think the real problem here is trusting ratings organizations to objectively "rate" companies when they have an incentive to extract money from those companies.

"As is Yelp."

These days I think the majority of these claims refer to separate "social media experts" who claim to be able to adjust "yelp reputation" and imply that they have an in, but do not work for Yelp or have any connections, just sockpuppet accounts.

http://www.thefunkyapple.com/2012/01/scam-alert-craigslist-a...

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#49

Post by Steko »

betterunix wrote: post #44
michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

"It's a useful tool used in the real world of business." Tool? It does not sound like a tool, at least not based on your description: "Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay?" ...sounds kind of like a credit rating service... "Want to get and Federal work?" ...sounds like bureaucracy. It sounds to me like DUNS is a service , not a "tool," and that they are the sort of service that slows everyone and ev…

"I have to wonder what it is that Apple hopes to gain by using this system. "

I'd guess a reaction to fly-by-night developers with scammy and copycat apps that generated far more bad press for the App Store than DUNS-gate.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#50

Post by DigitalBison »

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

I have no experience with DUNS so I can't say whether or not I agree it's a scam, but I can say that this article didn't make the case for me that it is. The article mentioned the process for requesting a DUNS number being annoying, and taking a while, but made no compelling argument that there's anything scammy about it.
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