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Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

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Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#41

Post by ccgreg »

beloch wrote: post #26

We should tax data. Hear me out. Google, Meta, etc. offer "free" services to a significant portion of the world's population. This isn't charitable work. They do this for data that makes them money. Lots of money. Data has real monetary value, but governments don't treat it as such. Few, if any, jurisdictions view data exports as taxable. It's simply not tracked. If data collection isn't tracked, how can one realisti…

How does that work for non-profit web crawls like the Common Crawl Foundation?

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#42

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

beloch wrote: post #26

We should tax data. Hear me out. Google, Meta, etc. offer "free" services to a significant portion of the world's population. This isn't charitable work. They do this for data that makes them money. Lots of money. Data has real monetary value, but governments don't treat it as such. Few, if any, jurisdictions view data exports as taxable. It's simply not tracked. If data collection isn't tracked, how can one realisti…

Right, because if you want a solid solution to a problem, you ask governments to tax it! Always works.

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#43

Post by johnnyanmac »

andsoitis wrote: post #4
alphabeta3r56 wrote: post #3

Privacy is only hard because comoanies are not telling/asking tgeir customers before sharing their data. A way to solve this problem would be to create a portal where customer data is stored in control of the customer. Companies are only allowed to tell each other about customers, not even which data they hold. And then each data request goes directly through the customers. Then customers can decide who to share data…

> Privacy is only hard Privacy is one of those words that you think you understand until you try to define it.

Sure. 20 years ago I would agree, and even 10 years ago I'd say there are some nuances to explore.

Today, though: governments are actively pushing policy to restrict the internet, legalize backdoors, and normalize mass surveillance. We're in the levels of obvious privacy violations that would make for an overly alarmist dystopian novel if published. There's not much nuance to worry about as of now.

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#44

Post by unsungNovelty »

Privacy is hard because the definition of privacy differs depending on who you ask to. And people think companies have your data, so "what's the point?".

Data economy which survives on privacy encroaching practices depend on ur "stream of data". Reducing the flow can exclude you from data breaches, spam calls, personalised pricing which rips from you etc.

Sure, there are PII which can't be hidden. But you surely can reduce the footprint. And browsing the internet is always a better UX with adblockers.

https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/07/2026/fire-alarms-priv...

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#45

Post by dbdr »

rileymat2 wrote: post #38
beloch wrote: post #26

We should tax data. Hear me out. Google, Meta, etc. offer "free" services to a significant portion of the world's population. This isn't charitable work. They do this for data that makes them money. Lots of money. Data has real monetary value, but governments don't treat it as such. Few, if any, jurisdictions view data exports as taxable. It's simply not tracked. If data collection isn't tracked, how can one realisti…

I am not sure what the point of this is. If they are exporting data for sale, we can tax the value they are selling it at. If they are using data to generate ad revenue, we can tax that. If we want to enforce privacy standards, we can make liability laws around sharing that data with third parties; we can make it harder for users to consent to the sharing of data by making users decide and approve on a case by case b…

There's at least one possible point, which is where the income is taxed. If data is not considered valuable, the German branch of company X can send data to its Irish branch, and the profit realized in Ireland (with very low tax rate), while this value was generated in Germany but the German state gets no income. And if Ireland raises its tax rate, send it to another fiscal paradise.

Potentially, if data was accounted as valuable, the income would be accounted for where it is generated, each country gets its fair share, and tax avoidance gets harder.

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#46

Post by Rygian »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #22

A lot of value is left on the table because informed people don't give up data. If simple regulation existed - say, "no one can use data for any purpose the user did not explicitly consent to, including product improvements AND including on-selling", that suddenly turns giving up data into a legally-binding, two-party transaction. There'd be an explosion of really cool uses of data as a result of the trust that'd eng…

Any "legally-binding, two-party transaction" between an individual and a large corporate conglomerate is a lost battle (or more precisely, a not-even-fought battle) for the vast majority of individuals.

80% of buyers of anything simply smash "Accept" (and watch through ads/spam) until their device shows the content they wanted to access. (Statistic is made up, but I think it's hard to refute.)

Do you call that "explicit consent"?

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#47

Post by baxtr »

beloch wrote: post #26

We should tax data. Hear me out. Google, Meta, etc. offer "free" services to a significant portion of the world's population. This isn't charitable work. They do this for data that makes them money. Lots of money. Data has real monetary value, but governments don't treat it as such. Few, if any, jurisdictions view data exports as taxable. It's simply not tracked. If data collection isn't tracked, how can one realisti…

Why not just tax the profits of the data companies?

If we start taxing data, why not tax any other underlying asset a company makes profits from?

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#48

Post by cadamsdotcom »

Rygian wrote: post #46
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #22

A lot of value is left on the table because informed people don't give up data. If simple regulation existed - say, "no one can use data for any purpose the user did not explicitly consent to, including product improvements AND including on-selling", that suddenly turns giving up data into a legally-binding, two-party transaction. There'd be an explosion of really cool uses of data as a result of the trust that'd eng…

Any "legally-binding, two-party transaction" between an individual and a large corporate conglomerate is a lost battle (or more precisely, a not-even-fought battle) for the vast majority of individuals. 80% of buyers of anything simply smash "Accept" (and watch through ads/spam) until their device shows the content they wanted to access. (Statistic is made up, but I think it's hard to refute.) Do you call that "expli…

I'm talking of a world in which laws are strong and well written enough that people don't need to worry; they can mash that Accept button and not be getting screwed over.

We agree that most peopke aren't equipped to provide informed consent and "buyer beware" won't work. For these the government steps in - car & plane safety for example.

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#49

Post by Pragmata »

spottedmarley wrote: post #2

Personal privacy is, and has always been, the job and responsibility of the individual. You can be as private or as public as you allow yourself to be through your own practices. Nobody can give you privacy, you must take it, which requires work and sacrifices that most people are simply unwilling to make, that's why nothing has changed. If it's privacy you want, stop being so public. Avoid surveillance. It's not eas…

>It's not easy but it's also not impossible, you have to actually value your privacy enough to do the work of establishing it.

It is literally illegal.

Are you suggesting that we must commit crimes?

Re: Why is privacy so hard? (2019)

#50

Post by mitxela »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #35
drdaeman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the overall direction, but how to tax it without screwing over hobbyist archivists aka data hoarders? That is, how to assess the value of some datastore, somehow distinguishing between personal preference profiles, random LLM software slop and, say, vintage anime collections?

> how to tax it without screwing over hobbyist archivists If you're a corporation, you're taxed. If you're a human, you're not.

Oh cool so Google just has to become a sole trader
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