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Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

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Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#41

Post by bluGill »

vlovich123 wrote: post #34
bluGill wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used and installed a fair amount of renewable energy since then. Plus, the similar efficiency gains in the EU and the article have also happened in the US. While there hasn't been government encouragement directly, there have been a lot of things that cause it to happen anyway.

Installing renewable energy doesn’t change the amount of energy required. The shift to Asia is almost certainly the bulk of it

It changes the amount of oil used which is the more important consultation

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#42

Post by derriz »

tmtvl wrote: post #10
delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

Interestingly you're looking at the wrong column: emissions per million USD GDP have gone from 467 metric tons to 206 metric tons. That's an improvement of about 56%. It'd be great if the politicians here in the EU could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to try and match that.

Match in what way? The equivalent number for the EU is about 125 tons I believe.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#43

Post by derriz »

paganel wrote: post #38

There's a general malaise throughout this continent of Europe that neither these journos nor most of the (quite financially well-off) computer programmers from forums like this one are willing to look up straight in the face. The 40% AfD vote in Eastern Germany is just a local manifestation of that, the truth is that us, the normies, people are royally scared about our (financial and not only) futures have been left…

> have been left almost no-where else to go

I’m pretty sure that there are political alternatives to afd’s ethno-nationalism, climate change denialism and Putin-worship

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#45

Post by ahartmetz »

david38 wrote: post #35
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone switched from manufacturing to service jobs

Manufacturing is brutal at efficiency. Every generation they aggressively cut material use and process energy usage. Look at any device that had a lot of metal years ago. The second part is phones have replaced a lot of people’s “stuff”. Young people prefer phones to cars even. You can loads of “stuff” on your phone and it’s just software.

>Young people prefer phones to cars even

I mean, I probably do, too. I certainly use my phone much more often (I live in Berlin). But please, can we not make cars smartphones on wheels? I don't want to throw away my car after five years because the software is outdated, the CPU has become too weak and the battery is worn out. (Not a dig against electric cars, their batteries usually last much longer)

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#46

Post by vlovich123 »

bluGill wrote: post #41
vlovich123 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing renewable energy doesn’t change the amount of energy required. The shift to Asia is almost certainly the bulk of it

It changes the amount of oil used which is the more important consultation

Which is irrelevant to the article which talks about the amount of energy used.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#47

Post by tmtvl »

croes wrote: post #21
tmtvl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly you're looking at the wrong column: emissions per million USD GDP have gone from 467 metric tons to 206 metric tons. That's an improvement of about 56%. It'd be great if the politicians here in the EU could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to try and match that.

Does this number include the outsourcing of production to Asia and to ship the products to the US?

No chance of that and I don't know where GP found that table but it most likely doesn't account for _any_ externalities.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#48

Post by tmtvl »

derriz wrote: post #42
tmtvl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly you're looking at the wrong column: emissions per million USD GDP have gone from 467 metric tons to 206 metric tons. That's an improvement of about 56%. It'd be great if the politicians here in the EU could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to try and match that.

Match in what way? The equivalent number for the EU is about 125 tons I believe.

Match in 'percentage reduced since 1995'. Fortunately we're gonna get a bit of a chance to catch up considering the USA's current leadership.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#49

Post by [deleted] »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #33
karmakurtisaani wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And probably both of these can be explained largely by the fact that most of the energy intensive production happens now in Asia.

Most energy consumption is for transportation and housing. The US trade deficit with the rest of the world is only about 3% of gdp, that doesn’t buy much in the way of emissions.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#50

Post by xethos »

ahartmetz wrote: post #45
david38 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing is brutal at efficiency. Every generation they aggressively cut material use and process energy usage. Look at any device that had a lot of metal years ago. The second part is phones have replaced a lot of people’s “stuff”. Young people prefer phones to cars even. You can loads of “stuff” on your phone and it’s just software.

>Young people prefer phones to cars even I mean, I probably do, too. I certainly use my phone much more often (I live in Berlin). But please, can we not make cars smartphones on wheels? I don't want to throw away my car after five years because the software is outdated, the CPU has become too weak and the battery is worn out. (Not a dig against electric cars, their batteries usually last much longer)

I get your point, and adore my Fiero, but most software updates to cellphones are required because they're networked.

Cars don't have to be, nor (IMO) should be internet-connected. So if the CPU in the infotainment system was sufficient at launch, and there's no reason to update the (not-internet-connected) software, then the CPU will continue to be sufficient, and the software being out of date is irrelevant.

Not to defend the modern tablet-on-dash, internet-connected, reports-your-sexual-preference "car", just to point out that the transition to digital isn't, by itself, bad

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