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Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

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Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't many ccTLDs do something like that with the ".co.xx" second-level domain? (e.g., ".co.uk")

Kinda, it's a slight variation of that from what I can tell. E.g. you can't go and register john.smith.uk because it's arbitrary.fixed.fixed rather than arbitrary.arbitrary.fixed. You can do something like john.smith.co.uk, but only if you have registered smith.co.uk or they delegate to you. It's an odd concept. I have to say I hadn't really thought of it before reading this.

i'm 60% sure that anyone can get a .uk domain. police.uk and nhs.uk are the only ones i can think of off the top of my head, but those might be 3TLDs hosts tbf

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's genuinely hard for me to to tell which parts of your comment are supposed to be a sarcastic reaction and which parts are supposed to be serious, which could well be a failure of mine rather than yours, but, taking it all in good faith: Summary (if you quote anything in response please try to do it from the details section as it's more accurate): Many of the fields you may have missed explicitly say such entries…

That's not accurate. A valid understanding of the form/process should result in an expectation of a referral to RSTEP to evaluate the impact on security and stability. But that didn't happen.

Today I feel like some guy who spent 6 years studying the curvature of iguana toes (or something equally random) and finally sees questions about them for the first time in his life :D.

Significant effort is spent detailing the relevant parts the RSEP process, confirming and detailing exactly how it was followed correctly. This specifically included whether certain matters were considered for referral (or should have been referred) to RSTEP for review. It's a tragedy to disagree with the well written reconsideration request document without responding to where you feel its analysis was incorrect & why, particularly content from sections:

- 4.2.1, designated to contain inquiries related to the RSEP process and if it was accurately followed, including:

- 4.2.1.3 referencing the parts of the RSTEP process defining when RSTEP should be engaged

- 4.2.2.1 highlighting how voluntary advanced collaboration prior to starting the RSEP process has made the dedicated referral processes referenced in 4.2.1.3 rarely relevant

- 4.2.2.2 containing a confirmation by the Ombuds that the preliminary portion of the process was done correctly and with the required info (including the list of 22k domains shared voluntarily before the preliminary phase began, without need to formally refer to RSTEP)

- & 4.3 concretely explaining in more plain terms why the Ombuds is sympathetic to the user but believes ICANN correctly followed the RSEP process in not engaging RSTEP for the concerns raised and re-raised

About the only thing I think could have been pre-emptively added was a reference to the definitions of Security and Stability concerns, which helps explain why it would have made no sense for RSEP to declare Security or Stability issues in need of referral during preliminary review, let alone "significant" and even ignoring the voluntary early engagement activity:

> 1.2 Security - An effect on security by the proposed Registry Service shall mean (A) the unauthorized disclosure, alteration, insertion or destruction of Registry Data, or (B) the unauthorized access to or disclosure of information or resources on the Internet by systems operating in accordance with all applicable standards.

> 1.3 Stability - An effect on stability shall mean that the proposed Registry Service (A) is not compliant with applicable relevant standards that are authoritative and published by a well-established, recognized and authoritative standards body, such as relevant Standards-Track or Best Current Practice RFCs sponsored by the IETF or (B) creates a condition that adversely affects the throughput, response time, consistency or coherence of responses to Internet servers or end systems, operating in accordance with applicable relevant standards that are authoritative and published by a well-established, recognized and authoritative standards body, such as relevant Standards-Track or Best Current Practice RFCs and relying on Registry Operator's delegation information or provisioning services.

Requesting authorization to terminate a given service & related registrations is clearly neither an unauthorized action/disclosure on registry data as well as clearly not against an IETF RFC. Notably, "Stability" is not defined as "has impact to users" - as well stated towards the end of the reconsideration request:

> Second, on the consideration of material information – the loss of approximately 22,000 is important to the individuals–however, this is not relevant to the strictly defined, community-developed policy

One can find the source for the material quoted in the reconsideration request response as well as the definitions I I added in above at https://www.icann.org/rsep-en/

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#43
post #21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the PDF, and thought I understood, but you're asking a good question. I did some research, and it turns out that when .name launched in 2001 (under Global Name Registry), it used this really weird shared-SLD architecture where the registry retained the second-level domain (e.g., rpdillon.name) and sold independent third-level domains (e.g. bob.rpdillon.name and jane.rpdillon.name) to completely unrelated indiv…

I cofounded Nameplanet, which morphed into GNR, and my name is in the ICANN docs for .name... Basically, .name came out of us starting out as a webmail provider offering people to pick from ca. 60k domain names covering most common last names, because one of my co-founders and I both had firstname@lastname.tld email addresses. When ICANN opened up for new TLDs we decided to try to offer the same more broadly. So it w…

thanks for trying, fwiw it made a beautiful domain for java source code back in the day. i hope you can do a long form retrospective on the .name story someday

do you think there's any point in contacting ICANN or Verisign? i'd be sad to lose mine!

it's wild how long some third level domains are still pre-registered for and how little an email forward must cost to run (at the sub-registrar level?)

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#44
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda, it's a slight variation of that from what I can tell. E.g. you can't go and register john.smith.uk because it's arbitrary.fixed.fixed rather than arbitrary.arbitrary.fixed. You can do something like john.smith.co.uk, but only if you have registered smith.co.uk or they delegate to you. It's an odd concept. I have to say I hadn't really thought of it before reading this.

i'm 60% sure that anyone can get a .uk domain. police.uk and nhs.uk are the only ones i can think of off the top of my head, but those might be 3TLDs hosts tbf

That's arbitrary.fixed, which is something also slightly different.

I know this sounds absolutely absurd and your mind must be screaming "so just get arbitrary.fixed and assign yourself whatever.aribtrary.fixed?" at you... but stick with me and I can say with, dare I say, 61% confidence what .name was doing will make you think "uh - ok, yeah... I... guess. People did that?" :).

If you own smith.uk then great - you can be john.smith.uk. What about Jim Smith in the UK? Is he supposed to just reach out to John Smith and ask for jim.smith.uk to be delegated to him? What about the thousands of other (anything but John) Smiths, are they just supposed to pester John and ask if he'll delegate the name? What if Jane Doe doesn't want to delegate to other Does? What if Bob Johnson does and then dies - lapsing the renewal? It's all a big mess because one person is assigned arbitrary.tld.

That's where arbitrary.arbitrary.tld comes in - arbitrary.tld is managed by the same ones running tld. Now thousands of different people can get their john.smith.tld and jim.smith.tld without having to worry about who controls smith.tld any more. Now sure, there is more than one John Smith... but the chance an individual is able to register their name goes from 1/last to 1/(first*last) and the even when your name is taken it'll take fewer extra characters/nicname variations to find an open one close to it (like jim2.smith.name or jimmy.smith.name).

That's what .name was and why tlds like .uk or third level zones under them like .co.uk aren't really the same thing. The 2nd level isn't both arbitrary AND controlled by the tld operator at the same time. The closest you could get in a normal .tld is to start a service which tries to buy up every lastname.tld, but it's not really practical to try to do so and you'll always end up with someone who doesn't want to sell or some name you didn't think to buy.

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming I have more money for lawyers than Verisign does

If you're in the USA you file in small claims where most lawyers are not allowed and you win there. bonus: You set precedent for other people to sue and beat Verisign down cut by cut.

small claims generally have a low cap on max damages. mine is 5k. I would happily pay 5k to not have to change my main email.

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently have firstnamelastname.name which I use. I’m thinking I need to switch after this.

They are cancelling 3rd level domains, not the 2-level domain you have.

Wait, if it was only firstname.lastname.name, how was he able to register firstnamelastname.name? Does it let you register 2nd level domains if you get there before someone else registers a 3rd level domain that uses the 2nd level domain that you want to register?

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#47
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cofounded Nameplanet, which morphed into GNR, and my name is in the ICANN docs for .name... Basically, .name came out of us starting out as a webmail provider offering people to pick from ca. 60k domain names covering most common last names, because one of my co-founders and I both had firstname@lastname.tld email addresses. When ICANN opened up for new TLDs we decided to try to offer the same more broadly. So it w…

thanks for trying, fwiw it made a beautiful domain for java source code back in the day. i hope you can do a long form retrospective on the .name story someday do you think there's any point in contacting ICANN or Verisign? i'd be sad to lose mine! it's wild how long some third level domains are still pre-registered for and how little an email forward must cost to run (at the sub-registrar level?)

It can't hurt to try to contact someone, but I doubt Verisign would listen. Already back then (we contracted them to run the registry backend, over my objections) they were stuffed full of bureaucrats. Maybe ICANN.

I left back in 2003, so can really only talk about the origin. By 2003 we cut staff massively, and after completing a reference registrar platform and laying off most of my team there wasn't really much left for me to do, so I left too...

The guy I originally got the shared domain idea with stuck around with a few of the early developers. Our other co-founders were out at that point.

Most of the fun was the initial mail platform and the registrar platform, both of which leaned heavily on qmail - the latter as a queuing system to decouple everything. Email as a messaging bus works very well...

But the .name process was like pulling teeth. One interesting thing is to look at our original ICANN contract and appendices compared to .biz and .info. We had to supply somewhere around 200 pages extra technical detail for "reasons" that seemed to boil down to us not knowing the right people.

Meanwhile dot-biz got away with maybe 30 pages including things like copy-pasting BNF that had no real relevance.

We ended up working round the clock to provide technical details the others weren't even asked for.

Not sure if someone wanted us to fail, or what the motivation was exactly, but the process was clearly not fair.

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#48

I have used a third-level .name domain as my primary domain and email since 2005, and I am in this list of domains affected. This is the first I have heard of this, does anyone have information on _when_ this might occur? In the RSEP it states: > "Have you communicated with any of the entities whose products or services might be affected by the introduction of your proposed service? If so, please describe the communi…

Did you already contact ICANN? I just did.

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#49

Honestly, fuck Verisign. They want to discontinue this because it's not especially popular or profitable. I take this to mean that they can't get enough money to support the administrative and developmental overhead. Now, it's true that there's only ~100k people using first.last.name type domains, and managing those and their special rules is a time and testing suck for developers and administrators. And likewise the…

The best way to solve this is to deny the motion.

Re: Discontinuation of third level domain registrations for the .name TLD [pdf]

#50
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for trying, fwiw it made a beautiful domain for java source code back in the day. i hope you can do a long form retrospective on the .name story someday do you think there's any point in contacting ICANN or Verisign? i'd be sad to lose mine! it's wild how long some third level domains are still pre-registered for and how little an email forward must cost to run (at the sub-registrar level?)

It can't hurt to try to contact someone, but I doubt Verisign would listen. Already back then (we contracted them to run the registry backend, over my objections) they were stuffed full of bureaucrats. Maybe ICANN. I left back in 2003, so can really only talk about the origin. By 2003 we cut staff massively, and after completing a reference registrar platform and laying off most of my team there wasn't really much le…

ah that's wild that top-level owned the MX records and mail relay server infra! thanks very much for sharing.

i'm going to send a few old fashioned letters. my registrar said only, we can't give legal advice, ICANN going to ICANN ;)

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