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Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

horn.gg

41–50 of 124 posts

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#41
post #16
post #9

Seems like this could be categorized as yet another reason why software developers are not engineers.

I never understood why actual engineers(eg. Civil) have not complained more that programmers/coders stole that title.

Why would they care? And a lot of them turned to coding anyway.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#43
>You can make lots of money by making something appear novel and undiscovered, and consequently make yourself sound smart and cutting edge. Nobody raises a round to apply a well understood discipline correctly.

I'm curious about this. I thought investors preferred safe bets?

On the other hand, I know that if you're too early, it can be impossible to make a business work (or even to pitch the idea in the first place).

Related: You can't tell people anything (2004)

https://web.archive.org/web/20091025030730/https://habitatch...

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#44

Relatedly, I fully expect the software business to fail to learn from (nearly) literally every other industry how to operate when your marginal costs are no longer zero. It drives me nuts the number of people in software who think that people in other industries are slow because they’re just not as smart as us, rather than because when it takes months to get a cast part made, it better be right the first time.

It's even funnier when you realize that not too long ago a decent chunk of the software industry did have to deal with the realities of having to press CDs, print boxes and ship them to retailers in time for the holiday season. The idea that you can ship a half-baked product directly to your end users, charge for it and promise it will get better over time (but only if you manage to secure enough VC funding in the meantime) is a relatively new invention.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#45
This is mostly wrong as far as motivation is concerned. Some people just by default figure stuff out with what they know. Others accumulate knowledge. If you go too far in either direction you are probably going to struggle, but it's just different people having different nature.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#46

Relatedly, I fully expect the software business to fail to learn from (nearly) literally every other industry how to operate when your marginal costs are no longer zero. It drives me nuts the number of people in software who think that people in other industries are slow because they’re just not as smart as us, rather than because when it takes months to get a cast part made, it better be right the first time.

It's even funnier when you realize that not too long ago a decent chunk of the software industry did have to deal with the realities of having to press CDs, print boxes and ship them to retailers in time for the holiday season. The idea that you can ship a half-baked product directly to your end users, charge for it and promise it will get better over time (but only if you manage to secure enough VC funding in the me…

> did have to deal with the realities of having to press CDs, print boxes and ship them to retailers in time

This is because the we have these periodic influxes of scammers into the IT the industry, with their empty promises and trust me bro culture.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#48
post #9

Seems like this could be categorized as yet another reason why software developers are not engineers.

A few years ago a software engineer asked a few Chemical/Civil/Mechanical engineers and the majority of "real" engineers seemed to think we were [1]. I'm not aware of a better study but happy to be proven wrong, since I generally refer to myself as a Software Developer

[1] https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#49
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why actual engineers(eg. Civil) have not complained more that programmers/coders stole that title.

Why would they care? And a lot of them turned to coding anyway.

Because Engineering is an incredibly rigorous discipline and title that requires so much work to obtain. It’s like a massage therapist calling themself a doctor. Computer Science isn’t Engineering.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#50
post #31

I'm a hands on engineering leader for a team of about 20 engineers and I've been spending the past 6 months trying to get my team to understand just this. On Friday we had a coffee hour to share how we've been working recently and they all seemed perplexed at the workflows I've been adopting. It seems natural to me as someone who's been a manager for some time now, but very alien to all those who've never gone down t…

Out of curiosity, what was the path that the engineers have been taking? The limiting communication between agents to my mind is obvious to anyone who hasn't swallowed orthodoxy Agile development completely whole. And in my experience the people who have, are rarely the devs. Context switching, between agents, people or whoever, require ramp up time to relearn context. It's always slower and more expensive, other pot…

> obvious to anyone who hasn't swallowed orthodoxy Agile development completely whole.

What? One of the first principles in doing Lean and Agile correctly is limiting Work in Progress and avoiding context switching whenever possible.

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