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OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

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Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#41

Post by torginus »

kaon_2 wrote: post #9
danlitt wrote: post #3

> ethical approaches to model development, how humans interact with AI and debate over machine consciousness So, pseudo-philosophical mumbo jumbo. There is of course no-one responsible for the ethical framework of the company's actions, because it is a company, and therefore amoral at best and immoral at worst.

I am not sure in what neighbourhood you live, but in my village there are hundreds of businesses with strong morals. From the local baker, to the electrician and the construction company. Many keep employees past their prime, they all invest heavily in local community events and sports. The owners don't do this because of money, but because in their view a fulfilled life is one where you serve your community. And yes…

Bet none of them have a chief ethicist tho.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#42

Post by surgical_fire »

kaon_2 wrote: post #9
danlitt wrote: post #3

> ethical approaches to model development, how humans interact with AI and debate over machine consciousness So, pseudo-philosophical mumbo jumbo. There is of course no-one responsible for the ethical framework of the company's actions, because it is a company, and therefore amoral at best and immoral at worst.

I am not sure in what neighbourhood you live, but in my village there are hundreds of businesses with strong morals. From the local baker, to the electrician and the construction company. Many keep employees past their prime, they all invest heavily in local community events and sports. The owners don't do this because of money, but because in their view a fulfilled life is one where you serve your community. And yes…

I know people like that, you are not wrong.

The problem is that corporations completely subvert any individual morality that might indicate that generating money is the only moral thing to do. Typically in small businesses. I comaider small businesses owners in general are a lot closer to labor than to capital owners in general terms, especially when their labor is still a large part of what keeps the business going.

Corporations are not that, those are hyper optimized for generating profits, all else be damned. Preferably if all else is damned.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#43

Post by RandomLensman »

pferde wrote: post #33
RandomLensman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people and procedures inside are the backstop.

can be the backstop. The word "can" is doing some extremely heavy lifting here, against corporate practices which dilute and spread guilt and responsibility for immoral decisions so thin, nobody in the decision chain even realizes something immoral has been decided.

Have you ever been in committees approving new products or perhaps certain transactions? These chains aren't necessarily that long. But "can", sure, things could fail etc. and some places are better than others at it.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#44

Post by ksbd-pls-finish »

pferde wrote: post #33
RandomLensman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people and procedures inside are the backstop.

can be the backstop. The word "can" is doing some extremely heavy lifting here, against corporate practices which dilute and spread guilt and responsibility for immoral decisions so thin, nobody in the decision chain even realizes something immoral has been decided.

Is this the same argument as "please point to a moral backstop that would prevent any person from taking immoral acts"? We usually hope that people will be moral, but can't enforce this.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#45

Post by bulbar »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #23
jofzar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silicon valley, literally everything is for pay or be homeless

That's everywhere, there are homeless people everywhere. The difference is Silicon Valley feels so guilty about it's wealth it refuses to do the normal things that societies do to prevent people from living like animals because 'rights' or something, so they let drug addicts live in their common spaces without treatment. This normally isn't tolerated in a functioning society where people are pressured into behaviors…

That's not how it works at all. You can't pressure people into becoming a productive member of society.

What you can do when it already happened is kill them or make them die in some ways, jail them or try to support and/or treat them.

I hope it goes without saying that letting them just die or killing or jailing them is not an option in a western society.

Prevention is much more favorable of course. For example, don't let people become homeless easily. But even then, a significant amount will become homeless.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#46

Post by YackerLose »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #23
jofzar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silicon valley, literally everything is for pay or be homeless

That's everywhere, there are homeless people everywhere. The difference is Silicon Valley feels so guilty about it's wealth it refuses to do the normal things that societies do to prevent people from living like animals because 'rights' or something, so they let drug addicts live in their common spaces without treatment. This normally isn't tolerated in a functioning society where people are pressured into behaviors…

Homeless people are a better way to keep cowardly minions (I mean, valuable employees) in line than cops. The homeless are an important part of capitalist power structures. They are a visible reminder of the consequences for not meeting quarterly goals.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#47

Post by vlovich123 »

shafyy wrote: post #37
estearum wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, homeless people are not everywhere. Homelessness is created by high rents. High rents are created by high local productivity. The people who are productive enough to make it over the rent-bar are housed, and their marginal productivity above the rent-bar serves to raise the rent-bar (talk to any landlord about how they set rent prices: it's the local wages, stupid). This then pushes a greater proportion of people…

> High rents are created by high local productivity. Wrong. High rents have many reasons and also good policies to get them down and have affordable housing for more people, also in otherwise expensive and popular cities.

OP has the demand part of the equation if supply remains fixed. The reason supply remains fixed is the US as a whole made policy changes in the 1970s that slowed down construction, specifically zoning laws and environmental laws swept the country. The 2008 recession also cancelled what little construction remained ongoing for a long time.

When you combine that with spiking wealth in Silicon Valley, you’ve got the perfect storm in Silicon Valley. With OpenAI and Anthropic both based in SF, it’s going to be worse than ever once they IPO.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#48

Post by onion2k »

Avicebron wrote: post #21
cyanydeez wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So more of an ethicist-for-pay than for the challenge of it.

Rubber stamp for hire?

I'd accept a few hundred grand to reply to emails with "No, the torment nexus is a net benefit.."

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#49

Post by nixon_why69 »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #23
jofzar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silicon valley, literally everything is for pay or be homeless

That's everywhere, there are homeless people everywhere. The difference is Silicon Valley feels so guilty about it's wealth it refuses to do the normal things that societies do to prevent people from living like animals because 'rights' or something, so they let drug addicts live in their common spaces without treatment. This normally isn't tolerated in a functioning society where people are pressured into behaviors…

No, it's actually very unusual to have tons of homeless people next to spectacular wealth, California is a global outlier in this phenomenon.

There are many, many places in the world that are much poorer and don't have homeless encampments all over the place.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#50

Post by ltbarcly3 »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #49
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's everywhere, there are homeless people everywhere. The difference is Silicon Valley feels so guilty about it's wealth it refuses to do the normal things that societies do to prevent people from living like animals because 'rights' or something, so they let drug addicts live in their common spaces without treatment. This normally isn't tolerated in a functioning society where people are pressured into behaviors…

No, it's actually very unusual to have tons of homeless people next to spectacular wealth, California is a global outlier in this phenomenon. There are many, many places in the world that are much poorer and don't have homeless encampments all over the place.

I literally said that.
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