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US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

theguardian.com

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Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#41

Post by leereeves »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #40
leereeves wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crawling around in catering trucks or carts to avoid Iran's threats is at best demeaning to the entire nation. The article actually says "secretly shuttled minutes later to a smaller plane via an airport catering truck ". The picture shows the size of the truck. No crawling was involved; The Guardian just crafted the headline to make Trump look "weak and like a doofus" and you bought into it.

It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like. The fact that Trump needs some stupid maneuvers is already a terrible look, after that it becomes a joke.

> It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like.

I disagree, I think it matters what the reality is, but do what feels right for you.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#42

Post by Izkata »

k12sosse wrote: post #17
efitz wrote: post #4

[flagged]

The only winning move is to not care.

They are [flagged][dead] and yet they're right. The title has since been changed from "catering cart" to "catering container" and the image and caption clarify it as "catering truck". "Catering cart" and "catering truck" are completely different things.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#43

Post by dinfinity »

D13Fd wrote: post #25
epistasis wrote: post #7

If true, this is really embarrassing. Have security standards really fallen that far, that we can't protect the US president in a more dignified way? That this story is even out there at all is an embarrassing low point for US competence and security. Amidst a ton of other incompetence and general displays of weakness from the US.

Is it, though? It was highly effective with basically zero downsides, and well executed. I’m honestly not sure what the problem is.

> I’m honestly not sure what the problem is.

Effectively using a plane full of people as a decoy, whilst believing there was a significant risk of them being shot down and killed.

An alternative would have been to keep the original plane grounded and feign some delay while the smaller plane made the trip. After signaling that the President had already been transported to the target location there would be no more danger for the original plane. This is of course more risky to the President, but it is a viable alternative.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#44

Post by karmakurtisaani »

leereeves wrote: post #41
karmakurtisaani wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like. The fact that Trump needs some stupid maneuvers is already a terrible look, after that it becomes a joke.

> It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like. I disagree, I think it matters what the reality is, but do what feels right for you.

Did reality matter in Trumps campaign? Did it matter his facts were check to be consistently incorrect?

I don't mean what matters to you or me, I mean what has proven to matter to the general population.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#45

Post by leereeves »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #44
leereeves wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like. I disagree, I think it matters what the reality is, but do what feels right for you.

Did reality matter in Trumps campaign? Did it matter his facts were check to be consistently incorrect? I don't mean what matters to you or me, I mean what has proven to matter to the general population.

Oh, if you mean campaign strategy, Democrats and the media spent most of 2016 (and all the years since) mocking Trump. How well did that work out?

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#46

Post by rayiner »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #33
hyperhello wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember this administration never passes up a lie about anything when the truth would do. There is no credibility.

"this administration" Except the claims were by the previous administration according to the article. There is no credibility there, either.

You think the Biden administration lied about Iran trying to assassinate Trump?

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#47

Post by surgical_fire »

D13Fd wrote: post #25
epistasis wrote: post #7

If true, this is really embarrassing. Have security standards really fallen that far, that we can't protect the US president in a more dignified way? That this story is even out there at all is an embarrassing low point for US competence and security. Amidst a ton of other incompetence and general displays of weakness from the US.

Is it, though? It was highly effective with basically zero downsides, and well executed. I’m honestly not sure what the problem is.

I think the problem is that Iran is a threat well beyond its borders to the US, despite the US administration (and numerous unrelated morons) claiming the US won the war against Iran, that it was obliterated, etc.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#48

Post by RickJWagner »

epistasis wrote: post #7

If true, this is really embarrassing. Have security standards really fallen that far, that we can't protect the US president in a more dignified way? That this story is even out there at all is an embarrassing low point for US competence and security. Amidst a ton of other incompetence and general displays of weakness from the US.

You’re joking, right?

This was a preemptive security move, and the president is still alive. Crazy people have tried to kill Trump multiple times already. Every minute of every day must be guarded, especially as the president travels.

The Secret Service is rising to the biggest challenge it’s ever had, and thus far it is succeeding.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#49

Post by epistasis »

RickJWagner wrote: post #48
epistasis wrote: post #7

If true, this is really embarrassing. Have security standards really fallen that far, that we can't protect the US president in a more dignified way? That this story is even out there at all is an embarrassing low point for US competence and security. Amidst a ton of other incompetence and general displays of weakness from the US.

You’re joking, right? This was a preemptive security move, and the president is still alive. Crazy people have tried to kill Trump multiple times already. Every minute of every day must be guarded, especially as the president travels. The Secret Service is rising to the biggest challenge it’s ever had, and thus far it is succeeding.

Making "preemptive security move" to protect against supposed Iranian infiltration is what makes us look weak, when the extent of it is walking into a catering cart and moving to a different plane.

"The biggest challenge its ever had" are you serious? Crazy people tried to kill every president, remember Reagan? The only thing with "crazy people trying to kill the president" that's different is that people are pretending it's new rather than the norm for presidents.

But this is a state actor, not some "crazy person." That the US is letting it leak that this is in response to Iran, looks very weak, and it shines a light on the president being really weak with Iran on everything.

Re: US President hid in catering cart for secret flight in Turkey amid Iran threat

#50

Post by epistasis »

leereeves wrote: post #41
karmakurtisaani wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like. The fact that Trump needs some stupid maneuvers is already a terrible look, after that it becomes a joke.

> It doesn't matter what the reality is, but what it can be made to look like. I disagree, I think it matters what the reality is, but do what feels right for you.

When it comes to national security, appearances matter a ton, and any president that doesn't understand that is putting the US at great risk.

Wars are started on appearances not on reality. Everything goes into managing it.

The US used to be viewed as a strong ally, but Trump has already made the US into a weak, unreliable ally. Being a weak ally makes the US weaker, because it greatly lowers the overall expectation of aid should the US enter war.

Now Trump is making the US look weak by letting leak rink-a-dink security moves, transmitting to the entire world that the President is scared of Iran, and willing to look weak when there are threats.

Contrast this with Zelenskyy going out on the streets of Kyiv when Putin was said to have teams of special ops out hunting to kill Zelenskyy. That's what strength is, and what leadership is. Whoever let this leak in Trump's administration did a grave disservice to the US (and to Trump too, but really I only care about the US, not any particular president).

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