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Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

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Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#41

Post by MBCook »

Barrin92 wrote: post #37
unpopularopp wrote: post #14

So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? Because you can go to Burger King (Xbox) or KFC (Switch) or Sonic (PC) as well but this group is arguing they want to have a Big Mac but not from McDonald's? Or actually McDonald's doesn't have a monopoly because you can technically buy a Big Mac from Uber Eats or Doordash?

>So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? yes, that's called a differentiated product in economics and it confers market power the same way any other monopoly does, Sony controls the Playstation ecosystem, Apple its ecosystem and it gives them leverage over the consumer, those products are not commodities. That's why pharmaceuticals, patented medical devices or cable and broadband providers are regulated, see net…

And thats the solution. Not lawsuits. Regulation.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#43

Post by braiamp »

anigbrowl wrote: post #36

I have mixed feelings about this campaign. Their main ask is that Sony give up exclusivity for the Playstation store, which prevents anyone selling PS games without Sony's approval (and a 30% cut of revenue generated); their main argument is that Sony has total market domination makes it subject to specific EU rules. I would like if there were other options besides the PS store for PS software, because the hardware i…

I don't think that potential reputational damage should be used as an excuse for monopolizing software distribution. Sony can have a tightly curated PlayStation Store and build its reputation around it without that necessarily implying that nobody else may sell software for the hardware. "Bad third-party software might exist" (we have examples of that existing on the PS Store anyway, but I digress) is an argument for giving consumers ways to distinguish trusted software from untrusted software, not automatically an argument for eliminating the competing distribution channel altogether.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#44

Post by spillguard »

xfnfnxfn wrote: post #21
hollowturtle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not going with both? Choice is never bad for the consumer, even if the majority or sales is digital. I usually buy both and they just lost me, I won't buy into their dystopian store

[flagged]

I’m not sure what your actual objection is here. Are you just taking issue with GP’s use of the word “never”?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#45

Post by yuerino »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #31
yuerino wrote: post #25

While I'm all for sueing Sony, and digital games cost more than physical games sound wrong and shouldn't happen, I feel like they focus on the wrong thing to sue Sony for. Like someone mentions in this thread, this feels like sueing McDonalds for having a monopoly on Big Mac, and only sell Big Mac in their stores. I don't know what the alternative solution to this problem is, but this doesn't feel right to me. For me…

It is not a new phenomena, and would be illegal in any other physical market. =3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

As a consumer, I agree that something feels wrong and should be illegal. I understand the intention of the case, but wrong execution, as in, what they're sueing for, is a tough case to win, and doesn't actually solve the problem, but maybe I'm just naive, and there's a precedent for this already in Netherlands or EU.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#46

Post by braiamp »

wilg wrote: post #30
stingraycharles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s that there is a large upfront cost (buying a PlayStation) which isn’t in the analogy. Additionally, many of the games are already on different platforms (PC), just not any other consoles. I think the biggest thing is that Sony doesn’t actually make the games (they don’t have the kitchen nor the cooks), they just sell it. So a more apt comparison would be a grocery store, I think.

The large upfront cost is lower than it would be because its subsidized by buying the games for it! Sony does make the games, they have many excellent first party studios! What are you talking about!

The PS5 was breaking even less than 6 months after its release. They don't subsidize anything. BTW, Nintendo also don't subsidize it. The BOM of the Switch 1 and 2 is lower than the total price including the margins for retailers!

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#47

Post by braiamp »

unpopularopp wrote: post #14

So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? Because you can go to Burger King (Xbox) or KFC (Switch) or Sonic (PC) as well but this group is arguing they want to have a Big Mac but not from McDonald's? Or actually McDonald's doesn't have a monopoly because you can technically buy a Big Mac from Uber Eats or Doordash?

If McDonalds were the only restaurant allowed to sell food within a particular market, and you couldn't buy food there from anyone else, then yes, your analogy would work. Otherwise it doesn't. A closer analogy would be Apple or the old company store model in company towns. In fact, why didn't you go with those?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#49

Post by braiamp »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #7

Okay so if I understand this correctly they want Sony to compensate (Dutch) customers because Sony no longer sells digital download codes/game keys to third-parties? If they started doing that, would they still have a case? For example, Nintendo does sell digital download codes, so this line of thinking doesn't apply to them? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Or is this about 3rd party app stores again? There are already c…

I don't know how the specifics would work, but if they reversed course immediately, they would have still caused some harm to some consumers during a specific amount of time.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#50

Post by Joel_Mckay »

yuerino wrote: post #45
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a new phenomena, and would be illegal in any other physical market. =3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

As a consumer, I agree that something feels wrong and should be illegal. I understand the intention of the case, but wrong execution, as in, what they're sueing for, is a tough case to win, and doesn't actually solve the problem, but maybe I'm just naive, and there's a precedent for this already in Netherlands or EU.

HP was a great company, and released HP48 ROMs into community curated public license at the end of the product life-cycle. To this day I measure every company by that decision to support customers when the company moves on to bigger and better projects.

For many years, Apple also had phenomenal customer support years after a sale. OS 7.5.3 could be installed decades after the product EOL.

Sony DRM just became Tying with extra steps, as consumers now rarely own what they pay for... especially on upgrades. With the loss of physical media, proof of sale and preserved license terms are now ephemeral. =3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

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