Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 291 posts

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#41

Post by yoyohello13 »

brcmthrowaway wrote: post #32
yoyohello13 wrote: post #25

In the US at least, we've been brainwashed to think that government, by definition, must be bloated, corrupt and inefficient. Believing this axiom, people vote to hand over every possible service to private enterprise. Now we are in a situation where a handful of unelected business men have more power over our lives than the elected government.

There's a certain school of economics that achieved this brainwashing. I forget the name, but it's the one of Milton Friedman. But the trouble is, weren't they right during the Cold War?

> weren't they right during the Cold War?

Very possible they were right. Hell, I'd agree it's true of the US gov today. If the message was "the government is currently bloated and corrupt, let's fix that" that's great. Today though the message is "government is inherently bloated and corrupt by it's very nature, and therefore unfixable, let's burn it all down" which is not true and actively harmful to democracy.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#42

Post by GMoromisato »

This was a fascinating interview, and there were a lot of ideas packed into it. Honestly, it makes me want to read her book.

That said, I disagree with a lot of her conclusions.

Contra her assertions, I believe that technological change is the principal cause of historical change. Lawrence Lessig wrote Code is Law, which highlights how specific software system decisions constrained the available legal regimes that could apply. The same thing happens for all technology: the invention of containerized shipping plus the internet led to globalization, which is the real reason nation states are eroding.

I do agree with her about the undesirability of an "artificial state"--an algorithmic government that rules by deterministic rules instead of representative human judgement. And I do agree that many technologists think that we'd be better off being ruled by machines instead of people. But that is (a) not a new phenomenon, and (b) equally found outside Silicon Valley. Paul Krugman often writes about Asimov's psychohistory being a strong influence on him. He longs for a world of Philosopher Kings who make decisions logically and without the messy delusions of the masses.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#43

Post by psunavy03 »

amberjack wrote: post #35

I don't know about the disruptive innovation history thing which seems interesting, but the stuff about science fiction, its role as knowledge especially related to politics, reading/misreading and so on just seems confused. Science fiction is primarily fiction and should be treated as such. Why exactly should I agree with the implied (or not) politics of a fictional world if I like the work? Why is it even necessary…

If the author was trying to make a point (as many sci-fi authors were), it's totally reasonable to call out someone who misses the point.

Like the people calling Starship Troopers fascist. Or even funnier, the people calling Heinlein a fascist for writing Starship Troopers, which just proves they haven't read any of the rest of his work.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#44

Post by hinkley »

People have been taking Knuth's 'premature optimization' in vain for almost as long as he had it written down, and only after 'performance is a feature' did I see any daylight at all at the end of the tunnel.

I've learned to lower my expectations a bit. Not enough to be pleasantly happy, but enough to not be incandescently furious on a periodic basis anymore.

There is no bigger fool than a smart person who confuses intelligence with wisdom. Intelligence is polarizing. Either you notice immediately you're being dumb, or you find a way to rationalize your dum-dum behavior for ages past when everyone else would have figured it out. We literally outwit ourselves.

I would love to be a fly on a wall for a shop-talking conversation between Silicon Valley psychotherapists. Those stories must be amazing.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#45

Post by WalterBright »

watwut wrote: post #30
WalterBright wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> It has pro-far-right censorship which is something different.

Just what is he censoring? I've seen plenty of far-out posts from both the left and right on X.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#46

Post by swiftcoder »

steveBK123 wrote: post #3

I don’t even think most of it is deeply philosophical. They just got uberrich and now worry more about the concerns of the uberrich than the concerns they had when they were normies. Rule of law, functioning government providing services, functioning public commons, free press, freedom of speech for all, any social safety net, etc don’t matter when they are so far removed from the public they can just go buy yourself…

> I don’t even think most of it is deeply philosophical.

Part of the problem is that a lot of it is shallowly philosophical. I used to attend Zuckerberg town halls, and as smart as the guy may be, it's pretty evident that he dropped out of Harvard after 1st-year philosophy

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#47

Post by epgui »

swiftcoder wrote: post #46
steveBK123 wrote: post #3

I don’t even think most of it is deeply philosophical. They just got uberrich and now worry more about the concerns of the uberrich than the concerns they had when they were normies. Rule of law, functioning government providing services, functioning public commons, free press, freedom of speech for all, any social safety net, etc don’t matter when they are so far removed from the public they can just go buy yourself…

> I don’t even think most of it is deeply philosophical. Part of the problem is that a lot of it is shallowly philosophical. I used to attend Zuckerberg town halls, and as smart as the guy may be, it's pretty evident that he dropped out of Harvard after 1st-year philosophy

A lot of “shallow philosophy” seems more like “pseudo-philosophy”.

I feel like a lot of people just take “thoughts” and label that philosophy.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#48

Post by swiftcoder »

ygjb wrote: post #17
jurgenburgen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rule of law, functioning government providing services Jokes on them, without rule of law and functioning government to enforce it there is no ownership.

Jokes on you. When there isn't a functional system of government there is nothing to stop rich psychopaths from paying poor psychopaths killing those who get in there way and declaring themselves dictators. In the absence of effective laws to align people in the direction of the society they want, and constant effort to realign in response to pressure, we will fall back to tribalism and all of the attendant forms of…

> or those with the resources to buy might

This feels a bit like those rich survivalists who think they are going to fix bomb-collars to their bodyguards to ensure loyalty in the apocalypse... stock certificates aren't worth a whole lot in a world where the rule of law has broken down

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#50

Post by SoftTalker »

ygjb wrote: post #17
jurgenburgen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rule of law, functioning government providing services Jokes on them, without rule of law and functioning government to enforce it there is no ownership.

Jokes on you. When there isn't a functional system of government there is nothing to stop rich psychopaths from paying poor psychopaths killing those who get in there way and declaring themselves dictators. In the absence of effective laws to align people in the direction of the society they want, and constant effort to realign in response to pressure, we will fall back to tribalism and all of the attendant forms of…

The problem for them is that in the US, "those who get in the way" are armed.
Post reply on HN