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How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

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Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#41

Post by bob1029 »

Foreignborn wrote: post #26
nradov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other HN users keep telling us that we should support dense housing development. I think those people have never lived in an apartment complex with trashy neighbors.

i live in shibuya and i have countless videos where it’s just make the damn building with noise in mind (RC, interior insulation, gapped flooring, etc). it’s very possible. (btw I am as country bumpkin as they come, my village has less than 200 people so i understand rural living.)

> interior insulation

How to live like a king.

Putting material like rockwool in the dead spaces can make an incredible difference in acoustic performance.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#42

Post by watwut »

jordwest wrote: post #12

I’ve been on several silent retreats now and one of the most surprising discoveries was just how much speaking is unnecessary. Without the pressure to speak amongst others, it became clear that I often said things out of anxiety - fear of looking weird or of making the other person uncomfortable. Nowadays I rarely speak when I feel that pressure and paradoxically it has led to far deeper relationships and more intere…

It sounds like it was good for you, but I would add a word of caution about 'one of the most surprising discoveries was just how much speaking is unnecessary' part.

It is easy to overdo it and torpedo relationships. Relationships are build from small interactions and when you refuse to do communication that is not strictly necessary, they just wont build. A lot of that "useless" communication has social purpose - it allows people to learn in initiate connections without putting large stakes on it. When you stop engaging, they will stop engaging and it all, well, stops.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#43

Post by epihelix »

doublerabbit wrote: post #14

I live in a apartment with a courtyard, it's taken me 10 years of knocking on folks doors. Normally it's new tenants who don't know how much noise they make and I have to ask them nicely if they could turn down their devices and show consideration. There have groans, feuds and aggressiveness towards me for asking for peace. I'm not unreasonable. If you wish to have a party, do it adult without DJs blaring till 3am. M…

Agreed. I live on an acreage with the sound of birds and the sea for company, and I could not possibly deal with high-density living. Peace, every single day, is just wonderful. (I'm so sorry for your situation -- it sounds ghastly. Move if you can. It's not worth living like that.)

However, I also know that many people find my lifestyle agoraphobic, and positively need high-density living. Many PhDs at my institute seem to feel the need to constantly surround themselves with noise and distractions that would do my head in (they literally have TV series playing on their phones as they do repetitive analysis tasks ... it is freaking weird!)

I'll never forget my first time living in the UK, describing my happiness of hiking in the wilderness to my English colleagues, and them looking at me in absolute horror, telling me that the idea of not being able to see a human house in any direction would scare them half to death.

And now, even when I go hiking, I encounter people who feel the need to hike with a bluetooth speaker blaring out their music / podcast / audiobook at themselves and everyone else.

I love silence, but most of the world seems genuinely scared by it.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#44

Post by vladvasiliu »

epihelix wrote: post #43
doublerabbit wrote: post #14

I live in a apartment with a courtyard, it's taken me 10 years of knocking on folks doors. Normally it's new tenants who don't know how much noise they make and I have to ask them nicely if they could turn down their devices and show consideration. There have groans, feuds and aggressiveness towards me for asking for peace. I'm not unreasonable. If you wish to have a party, do it adult without DJs blaring till 3am. M…

Agreed. I live on an acreage with the sound of birds and the sea for company, and I could not possibly deal with high-density living. Peace, every single day, is just wonderful. (I'm so sorry for your situation -- it sounds ghastly. Move if you can. It's not worth living like that.) However, I also know that many people find my lifestyle agoraphobic, and positively need high-density living. Many PhDs at my institute…

> And now, even when I go hiking, I encounter people who feel the need to hike with a bluetooth speaker blaring out their music / podcast / audiobook at themselves and everyone else.

Man, I really have no issue with people who can't enjoy the silence, and feel the need to occupy their ears. But imposing this on other people is beyond inconsiderate. I have no idea how this kind of behavior came to be so widespread.

And at least out in the forest, you'll be a nuisance for a few minutes while you pass someone. But the same shitty behavior happens every day in cities, on the street, and in public transport, where you're being an asshole to dozens of people for possibly dozens of minutes at a time.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#45

Post by throwawayffffas »

doublerabbit wrote: post #14

I live in a apartment with a courtyard, it's taken me 10 years of knocking on folks doors. Normally it's new tenants who don't know how much noise they make and I have to ask them nicely if they could turn down their devices and show consideration. There have groans, feuds and aggressiveness towards me for asking for peace. I'm not unreasonable. If you wish to have a party, do it adult without DJs blaring till 3am. M…

Why don't you move? Exhaust fans till 2am seagulls at 5am. I would be out in the first week.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#46

Post by vladvasiliu »

kombookcha wrote: post #34
strken wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in an apartment complex with weirdos before, including one lady who used to scream at random times, but we basically couldn't hear them. The screaming lady was only audible if the window was open. All the apartments were separated by brick or concrete, the front doors had lobbies that acted as baffles, and all the living areas were carpeted and had good thick ceilings.

This is very much my experience too. The difference between stout, newer buildings and old tenements are night and day. I used to live in a place made of massive thick concrete slabs with airgaps, and the only time you could hear neighbours was when somebody was using a drill, or on occasion, one neighbour singing in the shower so it travelled along the water pipes. Other places, you can follow conversations through…

Well, the issue is that it's difficult to know beforehand how good the soundproofing is. Even if you go to visit and it's quiet, is it because the neighbors are away or simply considerate? What happens when new ones move in?

I used to think living in a new building would be insurance enough. According to a colleague who lives in an apartment built in the 2010s, it's not.

For reference, this is in Paris, where there were laws passed in the 2000s supposed to enforce soundproofing in new developments.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#47

Post by throwawayffffas »

nradov wrote: post #16
doublerabbit wrote: post #14

I live in a apartment with a courtyard, it's taken me 10 years of knocking on folks doors. Normally it's new tenants who don't know how much noise they make and I have to ask them nicely if they could turn down their devices and show consideration. There have groans, feuds and aggressiveness towards me for asking for peace. I'm not unreasonable. If you wish to have a party, do it adult without DJs blaring till 3am. M…

Other HN users keep telling us that we should support dense housing development. I think those people have never lived in an apartment complex with trashy neighbors.

I have lived in apartment complexes my whole life, I have only had to make a noise complaint once, and it was because the power company decided to park a power generator under my window for the building across the street.

Ironically all of my noise worries these days do not come from my multi tenant development but the neighboring single occupancy houses that have parties in their yards.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#48

Post by kalleboo »

sam1r wrote: post #25
sam1r wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Comment. ^ is going to change my life. Thank you!! I had no idea, and this is such an elegant fix.

“Refresh, and quickly just click the reader button as the page loads slow on mobile, anyways”

In Safari (on iOS and macOS), you can go into site settings and choose "use reader mode when available" and it automatically opens straight into it. After doing that for a while, you'll have it on for the most common news sites you get linked to.

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#49

Post by master-lincoln »

fluoridation wrote: post #38
sublinear wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I agree with you, I think a lot of introverts would have a different take. Silence only works like that when all the extroverts are busy yapping away. If silence becomes trendy amongst extroverts, they will create the same pressures you temporarily found relief from. All "no" policies (no talking, no running, etc.) eventually turn into a form of bullying (see reddit if you didn't have a childhood like that…

>If silence becomes trendy amongst extroverts That sounds like an impossibility, unless these extroverts are communicating non-verbally. How do you do the "extro-" part of extrovertedness without talking?

Non verbal communication, physical closeness to others, clothing/make-up/hair style, messages on belongings are some more ways to express extroversion

Re: How Golden Is Silence, Actually?

#50

Post by sublinear »

fluoridation wrote: post #38
sublinear wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I agree with you, I think a lot of introverts would have a different take. Silence only works like that when all the extroverts are busy yapping away. If silence becomes trendy amongst extroverts, they will create the same pressures you temporarily found relief from. All "no" policies (no talking, no running, etc.) eventually turn into a form of bullying (see reddit if you didn't have a childhood like that…

>If silence becomes trendy amongst extroverts That sounds like an impossibility, unless these extroverts are communicating non-verbally. How do you do the "extro-" part of extrovertedness without talking?

Silence can be used to assert dominance. That's why I referenced "the rules" people might be familiar with in a school setting.

Maybe I can paint a clearer picture in your head if I asked you to imagine how silence would be used during an interrogation or by the main character of an action movie?

Silence used to be a very popular choice by previous generations of extroverts and it wasn't "relaxing". It created the very same tension that compels people to make small talk (and fools of themselves) nowadays.

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