What’s the situation in China?
Are people there also opposed to data centers?
Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
41–50 of 73 posts
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or look at it this way, a massive change has been forced on the public through the decisions of a small number of people. Basically the whole "Accept your fate, it is inevitable" backfired spectacularly. The people were robbed of their agency, their democratic process. This is just the democratic will reasserting its agency.
The modern version of democratic will is a sudden need to ban everything because you saw some outrage articles on social media.
I think that ignores the scale and speed of what is happening with the buildout. That it's gotten to the point that states are putting in moratoriums, thats pretty incredible. I've never seen political government forces mobilize this quickly except in some sort of emergency situation.
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
A data center on a ship out in the ocean is orders of magnitude cheaper and orders of magnitude more capable. If we can't demonstrate a solution to the heat problem, in-orbit DCs that contribute meaningful compute are a fantasy and nothing more.
Solar power in space is potentially very cheap; solar on a ship is not. The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.
OTOH wave power should potentially be very cheap in the middle of the ocean.
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not surprising at all. There is paid for the locals when these things appear, but they don’t get anything back for that paid. Even if they’re computer literate and using ai, there’s no notice that this came from their local centre. Nor is there anything that’s unique to a particular location. People get annoyed at being inconvenienced so that others, elsewhere can make money.
Usually the states give the incentives, the local towns usually get their tax revenue doubled or tripled, hence why these boards sprint to approval
States may dangle the tax carrots, but localities could be the ones paying for road and utility improvements. The costs for that could be much less than projected gains in tax revenue, but that's a gamble. Not to mention being left with abandoned buildings. We didn't even need to have a bubble pop to see abandoned facilities. If one company goes out of business (normal in a healthy economy), there's little we can (and politicians are willing to) do to make sure defunct companies clean up any messes.
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
This could have been stopped so easily on its tracks with a simple premise: 1 day turnaround build permits, to any proposed off-the-grid data centers. BYO power. BYO water. BYO pipes & sewage. OK, you are good. Now build! Instead they are look like parasites invading the heartland and sucking resources (true or not), and owners pretend to be surprised when they are getting voted down.
> BYO power Like 26 gas turbines that make a ton of noise and pollution? > BYO water What? How does one BYO water? > BYO pipes & sewage Pipes and sewage to where? There's an implied common ground at the end of those.
Yes
It falls from the sky
Septic tank
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#46The new poll found that 41 percent of Americans would oppose a data center being built within three miles of where they live, up from 28 percent in the January survey. The number supporting those projects dropped during the same period, from 37 percent to 24 percent. The shift was especially pronounced among people who said they had voted for Kamala Harris in the 2024 presidential race. The results reflect the scope…
This could have been stopped so easily on its tracks with a simple premise: 1 day turnaround build permits, to any proposed off-the-grid data centers. BYO power. BYO water. BYO pipes & sewage. OK, you are good. Now build! Instead they are look like parasites invading the heartland and sucking resources (true or not), and owners pretend to be surprised when they are getting voted down.
BYO power with a carbon and/or noise and/or local emissions footprint worse than the grid is definitely not good.
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
A data center on a ship out in the ocean is orders of magnitude cheaper and orders of magnitude more capable. If we can't demonstrate a solution to the heat problem, in-orbit DCs that contribute meaningful compute are a fantasy and nothing more.
Solar power in space is potentially very cheap; solar on a ship is not. The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.
Solar power in space is not cheap. It's efficient. A solar panel in space produces 4-10X as much power as one on land.
Which would be relevant if solar panels or land were scarce and expensive. Neither are. It's easier and cheaper to put 4-10X the number of panels on land.
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not impossible but I'm still curious how they're planning to deal with heat. I'd also wonder if the folks who don't want to live within 3 miles of a data center are OK with the data center flying over their head
No they aren't because it was never about the externalities of the data center itself (for most - it was for a few people who actually were screwed by the noise, for example). Instead, it's because most of this crowd are anti-AI luddites who hate that change is happening too fast for their minds to comprehend or adapt to. They stand in the way of a nearly limitless number of positive outcomes from this technology and…
That seems like a lot of conjecture based on very little evidence. The article doesn't mention why they're against data centers.
The obvious alternative explanation is that people are very worried about the externalities of a project as massive as putting data centers in space.
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not surprising at all. There is paid for the locals when these things appear, but they don’t get anything back for that paid. Even if they’re computer literate and using ai, there’s no notice that this came from their local centre. Nor is there anything that’s unique to a particular location. People get annoyed at being inconvenienced so that others, elsewhere can make money.
Here in Michigan there are large industrial facilities that most locals have no idea what is done inside. There's noise, electric usage, trucks coming in and out, but most people think it's ok. Data centers are seen differently.
The tech industry has spent that last few decades fucking with people: addictive infinite scrolling sites, dark patterns, etc.
Now the same assholes are saying their machines will eradicate the job market. And also will make their neighborhood noisy and their water and electric bills high.
The industry has earned this pushback several times over.
(I am generalizing but you get the idea from a layperson's perspective)
Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
A data center on a ship out in the ocean is orders of magnitude cheaper and orders of magnitude more capable. If we can't demonstrate a solution to the heat problem, in-orbit DCs that contribute meaningful compute are a fantasy and nothing more.
Solar power in space is potentially very cheap; solar on a ship is not. The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.
> The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.
Go on then, what are they? Demonstrable, you said. Show us some demonstrations please.