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Google Maps for iPhone

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Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#41

Post by Steko »

jonknee wrote: post #33
Steko wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Except the reality is that his last sentence should end ", no thanks to Apple"." If Apple doesn't build it's own Maps, we still have the old shittier maps app though right? Gruber in May: "This is a high-pressure switch for Apple. Regressions will not be acceptable. The purported whiz-bang 3D view stuff might be great, but users are going to have pitchforks and torches in hand if practical stuff like driving and wal…

> If Apple doesn't build it's own Maps, we still have the old shittier maps app though right? Apple was unwilling to negotiate with Google because they are upset over Android. Apple could certainly have improved its existing Maps app if they were willing to play ball with Google. They weren't and now they look even more ridiculous because every iOS user can plainly see that Apple is worse at mapping than Google.

"Apple was unwilling to negotiate with Google because they are upset over Android."

Alternatively we could use our pretend mind reading in the other direction and say that "Google was unwilling to negotiate with Apple because they had them over the barrel?"

Or we could realize that there are two parties in a negotiation and come to the conclusion both did what would be expected and in the end users will certainly benefit the most by having lots of competition in the mapping space.

"Apple could certainly have improved its existing Maps app if they were willing to play ball with Google. "

Which would have left them bent over the barrel forever?

"every iOS user can plainly see that Apple is worse at mapping than Google."

Because previously so many users thought Apple was better at maps than Google?

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#42

Post by revelation »

reidmain wrote: post #26
untog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I, as a user, care? I had a great feature, they replaced it with a bad one. They shouldn't have.

Yeah if you want to divorce yourself completely from the business side of things I understand that perspective. I would not however expect a company to do something that would harm them just to please me. They are a business trying to make money to survive. Doesn't matter if it is a massive company or small startup. EDIT: Ideally I would have like the Google app to have come out a lot quicker than it did so the trans…

The business side of things? The business side of things is people paying premium money to Apple for what they expect to be a premium experience.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#43

Post by [deleted] »

reidmain wrote: post #26
untog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I, as a user, care? I had a great feature, they replaced it with a bad one. They shouldn't have.

Yeah if you want to divorce yourself completely from the business side of things I understand that perspective. I would not however expect a company to do something that would harm them just to please me. They are a business trying to make money to survive. Doesn't matter if it is a massive company or small startup. EDIT: Ideally I would have like the Google app to have come out a lot quicker than it did so the trans…

[deleted]

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#44

Post by taylodl »

Steko wrote: post #8

I don't use nav apps daily like many do but it seems to be a given that most heavy users will move to Google Maps as their permanent solution. This can only bring more and more focus onto iOS's most glaring weakness: the lack of contracts/intents/services. If the next version of iOS doesn't have it I think you will see jailbreaking go mainstream.

Permanent solution? That's hard to say. No one should expect Apple to rest on their laurels for Maps though - they can't afford to admit defeat. They must continue to strive to make their Maps app as-good-as or even better than Google Maps. It'll be interesting to see what Apple does next.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#45

Post by justizin »

doe88 wrote: post #12
FireBeyond wrote: post #6

Leave it to Gruber to try to spin this pro-Apple: "This iOS 6 mapping saga has been a source of tremendous controversy, but here we are three months after iOS 6 was released and iPhone users now have a better Google Maps experience than they did when Google was providing the back-end data for the built-in Maps app. It all worked out." Almost like Apple planned it that way is the implication. Except the reality is tha…

> Except the reality is that his last sentence should end ", no thanks to Apple". Maybe Apple should have taken more time to make the transition. But the result is Apple is the master of its own destiny, Google is the master of its own destiny and it seems to work out for the better right now. Both apps have features the formerly co-owned app had not. Long term it's healthier I think.

Also note that everyone who has complained about Apple Maps either purchased an iPhone 5 essentially on release day, making them an early adopter (the 4 and 4S are still for sale) or is an early adopter by way of voluntarily upgrading.

Let's not overdramatize. And the iOS Maps experience based on Google's data was really terrible while iOS 6 was in development and when it was released.

There's also nothing wrong with Apple Maps that wasn't wrong with Google Maps literally years after it was launched.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#46

Post by jonknee »

danilocampos wrote: post #40
jonknee wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's true. In iOS 5 I had Google Maps but no vector tiles, no turn-by-turn or voice navigation, and Apple tried to get Google to work with them on that but (regardless of whose fault it was) negotiations failed. Now, here we are, and as an iPhone user I now have a Google Maps that not only has those features but is arguably, currently, better than the Android version(!) The lack of innovation was exclusively Ap…

> The lack of innovation was exclusively Apple's fault. They neglected to update its Google Maps powered app and decided to enter into war with Google at the detriment to Apple customers. If Steve Jobs hadn't gone nuclear on Google, the Maps debacle would never have happened. From what body cavity have you pulled this? At this point the calculus is pretty well understood. Apple's license covered bitmap tiles, traffic…

> Google wanted more prominent branding and way more user data.

So yes, Apple decided that it would drop Google. They were in a tough spot, hating Google with every breath but then relying on them for mapping, but it was a bed that they made.

Considering that the YouTube and Google Maps applications rocketed to the top of the store instantly, do you think Apple was concerned about its users or concerned about sticking it to Google? Apple's users want Google's applications, Apple does not want to cooperate with Google. It's that simple.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#47

Post by justizin »

sigzero wrote: post #27
baddox wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And everything could have been avoided by Apple choosing to wait a few months (or, more realistically, by working with Google starting much earlier) to make sure a Google Maps app was on the market when iOS 6 was released.

Since you really have no idea what the negotiation breakdowns were you really have no idea if any of what you stated was true.

We do know that Google started pushing ads into Maps API results in such a way that had nothing to do with any negotiations with Apple, unless they fucked everyone by intentionally cutting quality data to Apple users.

Google makes money off of us primarily by selling our data, in one way or another. Apple makes money off of us by selling us phones, primarily.

One of those companies (Apple) was dedicated to keeping the customer experience positive and found themselves with few options. The other (Google) took an action that harmed customers they shared with Apple, to hurt Apple.

I know who I want to keep doing business with, as Google begins to close the Android ecosystem and people tend to forget that a significant core portion of iOS is open-source, just like OSX. I doubt Android will continue to be much more open.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#48

Post by Steko »

thezilch wrote: post #25
Steko wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Except the reality is that his last sentence should end ", no thanks to Apple"." If Apple doesn't build it's own Maps, we still have the old shittier maps app though right? Gruber in May: "This is a high-pressure switch for Apple. Regressions will not be acceptable. The purported whiz-bang 3D view stuff might be great, but users are going to have pitchforks and torches in hand if practical stuff like driving and wal…

No, you still can't easily highlight-open / link addresses to open in Google Maps, for example. Among other things, Apple is responsible for the old, shitty map, and they are responsible for not getting Google more native integration and having NIH syndrome. Plainly, "thanks to Apple," iOS6 Maps is a failure, and it is a huge misstep for one of (of two) the world's flagship mobile-OS.

"No, you still can't easily highlight-open / link addresses to open in Google Maps, for example."

I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to find what this is replying to.

"Among other things, Apple is responsible for the old, shitty map"

Which was wildly lauded when it came out and later stagnated due to mutual differences.

"they are responsible for not getting Google more native integration"

Seems like there were two parties involved.

"and having NIH syndrome"

It's not at all hilarious to scold Apple for NIH syndrome when we're talking about Apple and Google.

"Plainly, "thanks to Apple," iOS6 Maps is a failure, and it is a huge misstep for one of (of two) the world's flagship mobile-OS."

Plainly, iOS6 maps are passable and in some ways were better than the old shitty maps powered by Google and today's Google's maps is better than both by a big margin.

You'll note I don't say this is "Thanks to Apple" here but the "Apple is responsible for everything bad and everything good that happens is no thanks to Apple" meme that has taken over this discussion is utterly ridiculous.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#49

Post by danilocampos »

jonknee wrote: post #46
danilocampos wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of innovation was exclusively Apple's fault. They neglected to update its Google Maps powered app and decided to enter into war with Google at the detriment to Apple customers. If Steve Jobs hadn't gone nuclear on Google, the Maps debacle would never have happened. From what body cavity have you pulled this? At this point the calculus is pretty well understood. Apple's license covered bitmap tiles, traffic…

> Google wanted more prominent branding and way more user data. So yes, Apple decided that it would drop Google. They were in a tough spot, hating Google with every breath but then relying on them for mapping, but it was a bed that they made. Considering that the YouTube and Google Maps applications rocketed to the top of the store instantly , do you think Apple was concerned about its users or concerned about sticki…

> They were in a tough spot, hating Google with every breath

I think it's more likely they hated the thought of an ad-heavy maps app that shuttled enormous volumes of their customer data to another party. Apple is an enormous company with significant value tied up in the success of their flagship product, the iPhone. "Hate" – or whatever emotions you're suggesting here – might occupy the minds of leadership, but they're going to make decisions based on what's best for the company. Clearly they thought an ad-heavy maps app was not best.

Re: Google Maps for iPhone

#50

Post by discordance »

FireBeyond wrote: post #6

Leave it to Gruber to try to spin this pro-Apple: "This iOS 6 mapping saga has been a source of tremendous controversy, but here we are three months after iOS 6 was released and iPhone users now have a better Google Maps experience than they did when Google was providing the back-end data for the built-in Maps app. It all worked out." Almost like Apple planned it that way is the implication. Except the reality is tha…

Gruber was referring to this being a win for the user, not Apple. I think it's pretty well established that this has been a giant clusterf for apple.
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