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Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

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Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#41

Post by pstuart »

lstodd wrote: post #22
Avicebron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of immediately making this an us vs them with theoretical climate deniers how about we focus on talking about how to improve science communication so that the article isn't something simultaneously dense and vague enough to be easily dismissed. I'll pick on the US, because blaming India and China will incite their little public defenders to bury the thread. The Gulf of Mexico is currently downstream of the US…

dumping nutrients into ocean funnily helps ocean ecosystems to get more productive. who could have thought, eh?

It's not clear if you're just trolling or don't understand the problem.

It's real, and documented: https://mississippiriverdelta.org/learning/explaining-the-gu...

If it's a thirst for librul teers, sorry to disappoint you.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#42

Post by conception »

Avicebron wrote: post #18
pstuart wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll pick on the US As you should. The current administration is partially owned by the fossil fuels industry and is literally paying to destroy existing and planned renewable energy sources. The agricultural runoff problem is an ecological crime scene. We could solve it if we weren't so corrupt.

It's been a known issue since the 1980s. LUMCON/Rabalais, Farm Bill in 1995, 1997 Hypoxia task force, 2001 Action plan, 2008 Action plan, 2011 Stoner Memo... The point is being deranged about the current admin doesn't help the scenario. Every team (political group) fucked up royally, continues to fuck up, and only cares about how much money businesses are putting into their second home or their kid's trust fund.

Only one is gutting the EPA.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#43

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

andy99 wrote: post #11
toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

[flagged]

There is a class of problems where "when things get really bad" is also the point when it's too late to implement a solution. Driving off a cliff, for example.

What would you do if you studied this matter for several years, and found overwhelming evidence that this is such a category of problem?

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#44

Post by epistasis »

toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

I think that the banng of HFCs is a pretty good example of collective action.

Also, it's important to realize that climate change, as we best understand it right now, is not a "or perish" type of situation. RCP8.5 has now been soundly eliminated from the set of potential climate trajectories, so what we're left with is a question of 1) how much mass migration will be forced upon the world, with concomitant wars and social strife, and 2) how much economic loss results from that, as well as from lost opportunity by not adopting cheaper renewable energy routes.

Technological innovation has done something absolutely remarkable: the future with the cheapest and most abundant energy is the one that switches to renewable energy and storage the fastest. Every day we delay, not only do we end up with a worse climate outcome, but we also just light money on fire, with worse economic efficiency. And in economies built on the continual compounding interest of technological advancement, we subject humanity to far greater poverty for every day we delay the transition.

Most of the world will benefit from this technological change happening quickly. There will be some outliers, like the US, that choose to be poorer and less influential by actively subverting renewable energy in the marketplace (the Trump administration has done a huge amount of economic damage in only a small amount of time), but the US will come around. Texas is leading the way, because they are actually market driven more than they are politically driven, but the rest of the US is kind of screwed on that front for a while.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#45

Post by underlipton »

toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

We almost eradicated several diseases, usually screwed over by designating an Omelasan child (though, that's a bad characterization, because letting parts of the world continue to suffer and serve as a reservoir for those diseases was actually completely unnecessary).

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#46

Post by glitchc »

epistasis wrote: post #44
toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

I think that the banng of HFCs is a pretty good example of collective action. Also, it's important to realize that climate change, as we best understand it right now, is not a "or perish" type of situation. RCP8.5 has now been soundly eliminated from the set of potential climate trajectories, so what we're left with is a question of 1) how much mass migration will be forced upon the world, with concomitant wars and s…

No matter how poor you think the US is, the average person in the rest of the world is indeed poorer.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#47

Post by caconym_ »

andy99 wrote: post #11
toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

[flagged]

> Ozone hole? Not sure how much of that was cyclical vs in human control.

If you don't know, maybe you should look it up instead of touting your ignorance in a public discussion forum? Your ignorance is not noteworthy. And while you're at it, you can educate yourself on climate change and proposed solutions to it, too. You seem to be suffering from several significant misconceptions, likely because you're bought into a narrative spun out by political hacks with zero understanding of the relevant scientific principles/knowledge and a vested interest in never changing that.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#48

Post by lstodd »

rpearl wrote: post #31
andy99 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

CFCs are responsible for the ozone hole. There are no known significant natural sources of CFCs. The ozone hole was caused by humans and its course correction was due to the political will to phase out CFCs. > Climate scientists can raise the alarm or whatever but have no credibility Climate scientists have credibility.

> Climate scientists have credibility.

Seriosly? Imo they never recovered it since the "hide the decline".

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#49

Post by metalman »

toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

"We"? if by "we" you mean Chinese, then yes, as THEY have maintained a cultural structure and language far longer than we have, and adapting themselves and there environment to do that was something they have been doing successfully for millenia,China still venerates the first engineer "Gun"assigned to control the flooding on the yallu river 3300 years ago, and it is then no surprise that they are building solar, wind and other renewable fossil/carbon free energy sources at an unprecidented rate, and ultra high voltage grid systems to distribute that energy, while we wring our hands committing genocide on the Palistinians.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#50

Post by tsunamifury »

toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

Historically speaking over over a billion years almost every species has consumed one thing and output another to the point of extinction while another species that consumes that grows and repeats the cycle.

Climate change has been the story of evolution since life appeared on earth and aglae filled the atmosphere with gasses.

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