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The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

harpguitars.net

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Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#41

Post by dhosek »

dahart wrote: post #40
dhosek wrote: post #28

I’m a bit skeptical of the claims given that multi-course tunings are almost as old as guitar-family instruments.

Multi-course ouds and lutes of course predate anything resembling the modern guitar by a long, long way. Do you consider those in the “guitar family”? If so, I’d refer to the group as oud or lute family. Guitar family is a recent subset of lute family, and doesn’t even contain the first multi-course instruments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Guitar_family_instrum... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_l…

I was being loose with terminology, but yes, oud/lute family is more accurate.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#42

Post by SoftTalker »

timdellinger wrote: post #35
dhosek wrote: post #28

I’m a bit skeptical of the claims given that multi-course tunings are almost as old as guitar-family instruments.

agreed - America went through a "mandolin mania" in ~1880s, and even in the 1900s and 1910s, the guitar was by no means an established instrument. As a matter of fact, the "tenor guitar" was made for people who knew how to play the very popular four string banjo, but wanted to play a guitar without learning new chords. Instruments were in a state of change, and the "harp" nomenclature (and styling) for a 12-string gu…

> the "tenor guitar"

Would that be a ukulele? Or is that something different yet?

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#43

Post by bilegeek »

SoftTalker wrote: post #42
timdellinger wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed - America went through a "mandolin mania" in ~1880s, and even in the 1900s and 1910s, the guitar was by no means an established instrument. As a matter of fact, the "tenor guitar" was made for people who knew how to play the very popular four string banjo, but wanted to play a guitar without learning new chords. Instruments were in a state of change, and the "harp" nomenclature (and styling) for a 12-string gu…

> the "tenor guitar" Would that be a ukulele? Or is that something different yet?

Different lineage[1] as (partially) mentioned above; the ukulele evolved from small Portuguese instruments[2], and is tuned about 3 full steps higher.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukulele#History

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#44

Post by analog31 »

anentropic wrote: post #33
analog31 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frets make chords possible. You only have to put your finger somewhere in between two frets to get a particular note, so you can play more than the tiny handful of chords that can be played on something like a violin. There are non-fretted guitars but they are rare, and I think early banjos were not fretted.

Isn't it the curvature of the fretboard (to allow for bowing individual strings) that prevents chords on a violin rather than lack of frets?

Chords can be rolled. Here's an all time favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngjEVKxQCWs&list=RDngjEVKxQC...

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#45

Post by xorcist »

analog31 wrote: post #5
jagged-chisel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why frets? Orchestral strings don’t use frets.

Frets make chords possible. You only have to put your finger somewhere in between two frets to get a particular note, so you can play more than the tiny handful of chords that can be played on something like a violin. There are non-fretted guitars but they are rare, and I think early banjos were not fretted.

Fretless bass is quite popular though, and they play chords all the time. What would 80s music have been without them?

And all uprights are fretless, too. And cellos of course. They can also play chords.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#46

Post by xorcist »

babblingbrook wrote: post #7

What I love about links like this is that we see information being shared just for the love of it. This person has done a lot of work simply to share knowledge with the world about something they are passionate about. This is what great about the internet and is easily lost amongst all the commercial content.

Just imagine, had this been a Facebook event instead, none of this information would have been available to us outsiders. The open web lives, even if bruised and limping.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#47

Post by ErroneousBosh »

anentropic wrote: post #32
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five for the Hendrix Chord, E7♯9 ;-) That's E, G♯, B, D, F

I read a pretty good argument once that this chord should really be called a b10 (no one does though...)

We seem to have a pretty hardcoded preference for using sharp in everything that's not brass and woodwind, don't we?

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#48

Post by defrost »

swiftcoder wrote: post #24
defrost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit spotty, but alright; meanwhile the Italian instrument makers said guitar-harp? Hold our expressos, this'll take some discipline: * https://www.delta-harp.com/ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdUztFVwi3I

Never having played a harp, whats the advantage here (beyond cool factor) over an equivalent electric guitar?

I'm a bit late on the reply, so to add to what has been said by AlecSchueler consider the piece I linked above being played on that guitar slung mini harp.

It's a cover of an English prog rock piece, the titular Discipline from 1981 by the band King Crimson with the then line up of a drummer's drummer, Bill Bruford, and three top form guitarists, Robert Fripp (sitting on chair), Tony Levin (Chapman stick), and Adrian Belew [0].

One comment on the linked performance is simply: 3+2/4 vs 2+3/4 vs 9+8/16 vs 4+4+4+5/16 INSANE

So, ... it's an instrument that allowed for a credible attempt at covering three "insane" polymeter prog rhythms by a single performer.

I'm old enough to have got the album when it first came out- looking for a live performance I stumbled over a recent breakdown look back at a peer album track: Frame by Frame [1]

[0] King Crimson: Discipline (Live Kani Hoken Hall Tokyo 30th April 1984) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOFkbDKsC9U

[1] These Guys Wrote The Most INSANE Polymeter in 1981 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYAa1JNCDFE

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#49

Post by anentropic »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #47
anentropic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a pretty good argument once that this chord should really be called a b10 (no one does though...)

We seem to have a pretty hardcoded preference for using sharp in everything that's not brass and woodwind, don't we?

I think it's also ingrained that the chord starts from 3rd and 5th degrees so numbers above 7 are always adding in one of the other degrees. Or that a chord should have at most 'one of each'.

The argument was that this chord is unusual in that it's best thought of as having a second modified 3rd, rather than a #9 (raised 2nd)

The major-minor-7 chord is another example of the same degree twice... and we don't call that a maj-14 either

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