The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare • Hacker News Board

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#41

Post by subpixel » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:14 PM UTC

It's economics: when it's raining, cabs will pass on a long-haul fare in order to pick up half a dozen or more short-hauls in the same 60-90 minutes. Especially in Manhattan, a cab in the rain will never be empty, so they're guaranteed fares and tips that will add up to more than the fare + $5 or whatever the average airport tip is.

I don't see this as so very different from Uber raising prices in response to demand.

As others have pointed out: get in the cab first next time to avoid disappointment. And don't ask, tell the driver where you're going.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#42

Post by cdrxndr » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:18 PM UTC

jcampbell1 wrote: post #13

This is a common tourist mistake. Flag the taxi, and then get in the car, say hello, then tell the driver where you are going. Only tourists think they need permission to get in the car, and so the drivers will refuse them. Tourists also tend to request unprofitable routes, like going 15 blocks in Times Square. They are allowed to turn the off-duty light on, and to get one final fare going their return direction at t…

This. I'm all of punishing the hell out of cabbies that cheat (e.g., fare refusals or the out-of-city overcharged fares that were discovered via GPS data), but the failure to get into the cab ruins the whole case.

Get in the cab. State your business. Snap a photo of the driver's license if you are asked to leave and report him/her to 311. Blog to your heart's content on behalf of your company's alternative service.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#43

Post by leelin » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:24 PM UTC

As documented in Mike Grynbaum's NY Times article, the five taxis probably weren't lying about the shift change.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/nyregion/12taxi.html

It seems irrational at first, but changing shifts at the same time makes drivers and cars more interchangeable. More importantly, it makes day-shift vs. night-shift approximately equal in profit opportunity. It's a shame the shift changes coincide with after-work rush hour and a popular time for night life to wind down.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#44

Post by benregenspan » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:26 PM UTC

kapnobatairza wrote: post #21

1) The author of this post is wrong when he assumes that the driver's refused his fare solely because JFK is a location that is "out of the way". There are indeed set shift changes that the large majority of cabs in NYC adhere to, and when they do change shift they leave their "off-duty" lights on and try to get one more fare on their way back to the depot/home at the end of their shift. I don't know how many times I…

Was about to write the same thing. Taxi drivers aren't stupid and they weren't "fail[ing] to respect" the author, they want to maximize their earnings, they also want to get their cars back before the set shift change; if they're late they have to pay a fine (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/nyregion/12taxi.html?_r=0).

The advice people are giving to just jump in the cab applies in the case where the driver's off-duty light is not on, but the rider looks like they're going to some part of Brooklyn (or wherever) that the driver doesn't want to go, and the driver is wrongly being selective. The situation of having to just jump in the car has never come up for me in Manhattan with an on-duty car, it has before in Brooklyn though.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#45

Post by kapnobatairza » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:29 PM UTC

benregenspan wrote: post #44

kapnobatairza wrote: post #21

1) The author of this post is wrong when he assumes that the driver's refused his fare solely because JFK is a location that is "out of the way". There are indeed set shift changes that the large majority of cabs in NYC adhere to, and when they do change shift they leave their "off-duty" lights on and try to get one more fare on their way back to the depot/home at the end of their shift. I don't know how many times I…

Was about to write the same thing. Taxi drivers aren't stupid and they weren't "fail[ing] to respect" the author, they want to maximize their earnings, they also want to get their cars back before the set shift change; if they're late they have to pay a fine ( http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/nyregion/12taxi.html?_r=0 ). The advice people are giving to just jump in the cab applies in the case where the driver's off-…

Even in the case you describe, they will try to refuse or claim they don't know the way most of the time. If you still hold your ground, you better know the route because if you don't you can expect the cabbie to get "lost" for an hour and have you pay for the privilege.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#46

Post by darklajid » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:30 PM UTC

I like the Uber concept and like most people I know, can feel for people having troubles with taxis.

But after I noticed the 3rd invite-to-uber link I got worried that this is just a piece of marketing. The count reached six and the closing words were again a call to action to sign up. A quick search seems to indicate that you can get benefits from the company, if you invite new users. Which someone is _desperately_ trying in my opinion.

A disclaimer would've been appreciated.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#47

Post by rwhitman » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:34 PM UTC

king_magic wrote: post #14

rwhitman wrote: post #10

You have to get inside the cab before you tell them where you're going, they are legally required to take you once you are inside

In theory, sure. In reality, during the day in midtown (and particularly around rush hour), you're more likely going to find a cab that pulls up to you with its doors locked, and a driver who rolls down his window to ask you where you're going. Especially if you look like you're going to the airport. If I have to get to the airport in NYC I book a car, every single time. I hate dealing with cabbies' bullshit, and so…

True. Though if we're going to argue what is the most reliable way to get to JFK from manhattan during rush hour I'd offer LIRR as the best option, since it doesn't get stuck in traffic...

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#48

Post by potatolicious » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:39 PM UTC

steve8918 wrote: post #16

Whenever I've been in NYC, I've never had a problem getting cabs. Going to Newark airport however cost me something like $110 if I remember correctly, because the cab driver gave me these special "fees" at the end, it felt like highway robbery. Now in SF, it's the worst cab situation I've ever seen. I've had cabs that I ordered via the phone never bother to show up, and once waited 90 mins in front of a hotel, as the…

> "Going to Newark airport however cost me something like $110 if I remember correctly, because the cab driver gave me these special "fees" at the end, it felt like highway robbery."

It is. There is no flat rate to Newark airport, so you can either take the metered rate or negotiate your own flat fare. Bonus of the custom-negotiated fare is also that customarily you don't tip on it.

There's no good reason why going to EWR from Manhattan should cost $110 (short of complete and utter gridlock). Insist on negotiating a fare, or just call a car service - their vehicles will be nicer, the driver will be less surly, and the price will be substantially lower.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#49

Post by king_magic » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:41 PM UTC

rwhitman wrote: post #47

king_magic wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, sure. In reality, during the day in midtown (and particularly around rush hour), you're more likely going to find a cab that pulls up to you with its doors locked, and a driver who rolls down his window to ask you where you're going. Especially if you look like you're going to the airport. If I have to get to the airport in NYC I book a car, every single time. I hate dealing with cabbies' bullshit, and so…

True. Though if we're going to argue what is the most reliable way to get to JFK from manhattan during rush hour I'd offer LIRR as the best option, since it doesn't get stuck in traffic...

Yeah, good point. Several of my coworkers are from my company's offices in Canada, and when they are down here they always insist on getting a cab. It always turns out bad, because they always seem to be leaving at rush hour. I wish I could convince them to either just book a car or take mass transit.

Re: The Five NYC Taxi Drivers who Refused My Fare

#50

Post by justinlkarr » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 11:54 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #38

The shift-change thing is my biggest problem with NYC taxis, but other than that, they seem vastly better than anywhere I've tried (except London). Plural of anecdote is not data, but what for me is a representative experience in NYC: I had to go from Brooklyn (after having lunch with some rap lyrics entrepreneurs at a famous steak house), to my midtown hotel to pick up my luggage, to JFK, all in 2h, to catch a fligh…

Ditto DC. Ditto Chicago (though it's better). NYC cab service is by far the most consistently reliable this side of the Atlantic... once you get the rules down.

One largely unknown tip is that there are many formal cab stands around NYC. At these, another human being helps you navigate the rules and hail a cab. They are great for the elderly, tourists and any of us when we have a big package or a lot of bags. They are also often covered (see: cabs-in-rain problem), discourage 'up-streaming' by other would-be riders and they seem to attract available cabs (cabbies seem to favor the known quantity). A few are official NYC TLC operations (airports, train stations, etc.), but many are free-market concerns (nearly every hotel).

Here's the NYC Cab app I want: 1. Identify and map these cab stands; 2. Report if they are 'open'; 3. Show demand (number of people waiting), and; 4. Show availability (number of cabs waiting).