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Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

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Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#41

Post by elliotec »

evolve2k wrote: post #23

Coming from Rails, which I’m sure informes part of the philosophy I really like this. One design value of Rails is “Convention over configuration”, or what I sometimes explain as smart defaults over having to decide everything. I see this is an area this project can help with; thought through folder and naming conventions; wrestling with issues at the seem between common tools. Making doing things the right way way (…

This is like, the opposite of Rails and the "convention over configuration" style. It's making no decisions for you except to "use primate in the middle of whatever else you decide to configure!" Seems like it's actively encouraging making a mess of your stack. I don't understand it at all.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#42

Post by luckydata »

graypegg wrote: post #38
echelon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a witch hunt. Everything gets labeled AI, flagged, and canned. I'm getting annoyed at HN now and wish I could join an AI-positive / tech-positive version.

Genuinely curious, do you find HN to be AI-negative? (For whatever that mostly meaningless label is worth.) Would an "AI-positive / tech-positive" version of HN be just the same site, but with a smaller user base that holds similar opinions to you? There's a wide spectrum of folks with different opinions on everything here, but I wouldn't say there's some lean towards LLM-hate. I'm not a fan of AI projects, but I can…

I think the comments on AI related projects are filled with negativity and uninformed opinions and I too find the atmosphere around here pretty off-putting lately.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#43

Post by brightball »

macintux wrote: post #18
brightball wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood that terminology since the middleware was always on the server too.

I thought of middleware as sitting on one server, with the database behind it typically on another.

Yea, I've seen that often. Some people would call any server side code middleware.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#44

Post by gitpusher »

jottinger wrote: post #36
gitpusher wrote: post #30

The English language has no words (yet) to capture that special combination of nausea and embarrassment one feels when they commit in good faith to reading a long piece of prose... only to slowly realize the whole thing is AI generated. But I'm feeling it more and more often these days.

Does that have something to do with OP's post, though? I mean, it's written like someone who's mostly formally familiar with English. Maybe your infamiliarity with formal English itself is factoring in, because the AIs are ALSO formal in diction? I didn't get the same "AI wrote this" that you did, but I get a lot of people saying "AI wrote this" to stuff I definitely wrote by hand, all the way.

> Does that have something to do with OP's post, though?

Yes, the post reads to me as AI-generated, and then the author lightly revised the intro. They aren't evil for doing this. I just personally prefer reading things written by a human.

> I didn't get the same "AI wrote this",

The tells aren't always the same. For me LLMs have a certain indefatigable "bounciness" in their output that is impossible to miss. Everything has to be punchy. Everything shows the same level of (strangely elevated) excitement. At some point a human will do human things: put a little more detail here, vary their tone there, maybe lose the thread a bit and talk about something that's unrelated to the main flow. LLMs don't do any of those things–the writing is one speed from beginning to end. It's like riding a conveyor belt

> but I get a lot of people saying "AI wrote this" to stuff I definitely wrote by hand

I agree that there is a flip-side here where many people are eager to accuse AI usage for sometimes bizarre and facile reasons. And this is unfortunate, too. But it should illustrate the general frustration that many people are feeling about AI and its effects on social norms.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#45

Post by graypegg »

luckydata wrote: post #42
graypegg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, do you find HN to be AI-negative? (For whatever that mostly meaningless label is worth.) Would an "AI-positive / tech-positive" version of HN be just the same site, but with a smaller user base that holds similar opinions to you? There's a wide spectrum of folks with different opinions on everything here, but I wouldn't say there's some lean towards LLM-hate. I'm not a fan of AI projects, but I can…

I think the comments on AI related projects are filled with negativity and uninformed opinions and I too find the atmosphere around here pretty off-putting lately.

I won't say that HN is some bastion of objectivity, but I do find people tend to be a little more direct on here. Individual comments can be pretty harsh as a result, but I tend to put at least some weight in the "HN hivemind" simply because I know there's a lot of people in important fields participating here. You absolutely don't have to agree with that, but I've rethought some things before because of that "negativity" that in hindsight; were indeed not great ideas.

If it feels that AI-generated projects are getting negative feedback, it might be worth interrogating why that is. It might not be because they're made with AI, it could be because they're not a great idea/not well implemented.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#46

Post by btschaegg »

gitpusher wrote: post #30

The English language has no words (yet) to capture that special combination of nausea and embarrassment one feels when they commit in good faith to reading a long piece of prose... only to slowly realize the whole thing is AI generated. But I'm feeling it more and more often these days.

There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery.

SCNR :)

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#47

Post by ademup »

graypegg wrote: post #14
ademup wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My clients and colleagues are bragging about "headless web sites", by which they mean "sites built without WordPress (and kin)", by which they mean "sites built entirely using the English language via AI" In that sense, the author might be implying that "web framework" may soon be a thing relegated to history

Wait, is that what headless means now in the agency world!? I remember headless meaning the CMS wasn't the software serving the initial request, it just provided an API that some HTML/CSS/JS on S3 or something would consume.

Yes apparently so: my customer is a very intelligent research director at a well known company. He was very excited to tell me about going "headless", and I was very confused for a solid 5 minutes before figuring it out. He told me that this was the term his vendors were using.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#48

Post by gitpusher »

luckydata wrote: post #42
graypegg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, do you find HN to be AI-negative? (For whatever that mostly meaningless label is worth.) Would an "AI-positive / tech-positive" version of HN be just the same site, but with a smaller user base that holds similar opinions to you? There's a wide spectrum of folks with different opinions on everything here, but I wouldn't say there's some lean towards LLM-hate. I'm not a fan of AI projects, but I can…

I think the comments on AI related projects are filled with negativity and uninformed opinions and I too find the atmosphere around here pretty off-putting lately.

> find the atmosphere around here pretty off-putting lately.

Hehe. I chuckle because I've been reading comments like this one for more than 10 years now. You might be right. But if HackerNews is dying then it sure is taking its time.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#49

Post by gitpusher »

graypegg wrote: post #38
echelon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a witch hunt. Everything gets labeled AI, flagged, and canned. I'm getting annoyed at HN now and wish I could join an AI-positive / tech-positive version.

Genuinely curious, do you find HN to be AI-negative? (For whatever that mostly meaningless label is worth.) Would an "AI-positive / tech-positive" version of HN be just the same site, but with a smaller user base that holds similar opinions to you? There's a wide spectrum of folks with different opinions on everything here, but I wouldn't say there's some lean towards LLM-hate. I'm not a fan of AI projects, but I can…

> I don't think the root post here should be flagged really.

If you're referring to my post ...then of course I agree with you!

I should clarify that I am in no way whatsoever opposed to AI usage. I use it all day, every day like most of us here and, if we are doing labels now, then I guess I would consider myself generally AI-positive.

What I don't like is when people use AI to produce low-effort content, and then package it in such a way that it masquerades as high-effort content. Of course what is low-effort or what is high-effort are highly subjective. But publishing an article that has your name at the top, it's written in the 1st person, and yet it's very obviously 100% copy/pasted AI output -- this falls on the wrong side of ethical for me.

I suppose OP could put "AI-generated" or some such disclaimer on the article. But I would rather people just revise the output, actually engage with what they're creating before they dump it on the rest of us.

Re: Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

#50

Post by graypegg »

gitpusher wrote: post #49
graypegg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, do you find HN to be AI-negative? (For whatever that mostly meaningless label is worth.) Would an "AI-positive / tech-positive" version of HN be just the same site, but with a smaller user base that holds similar opinions to you? There's a wide spectrum of folks with different opinions on everything here, but I wouldn't say there's some lean towards LLM-hate. I'm not a fan of AI projects, but I can…

> I don't think the root post here should be flagged really. If you're referring to my post ...then of course I agree with you! I should clarify that I am in no way whatsoever opposed to AI usage. I use it all day, every day like most of us here and, if we are doing labels now, then I guess I would consider myself generally AI-positive. What I don't like is when people use AI to produce low-effort content, and then p…

OH! Sorry no, your comment isn't flagged! Was talking about the root post as in "Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework".
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