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StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

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Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#41

Post by janalsncm »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #7

I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

You are describing rent-seeking behavior: middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions.

Yes, this is “normal” in the sense that it is common. It is “normal” in the same way that cancer is “normal”.

No, this is not “normal” in the sense of being behavior the government should just tolerate. It is in the same category of market failures as monopolies and externalities.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#42

Post by bmm6o »

gruez wrote: post #10
xnx wrote: post #5

Scummy behavior, but customers are also tacitly endorsing high prices when they pay $1500 for a Taylor Swift (or name your artist) ticket.

You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets. If you're selling something worth $1000 for $200, you shouldn't be surprised arbitrageurs pop up to take advantage.

Those arbitrageurs who extract payment without adding value should not be surprised when people are upset and demand changes.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#43

Post by brookst »

Analemma_ wrote: post #21
dclaw wrote: post #20

End it. Make reselling tickets illegal again overall. Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.

The fact that "the name on the ticket must match your photo ID, but you can resell at any time before the event" would instantly solve scalping problems and yet nobody does it is your clue that nobody actually wants scalping problems to be solved. Scalpers are the sin eaters for Ticketmaster and the events themselves, taking the hate so the performers don't have to.

How do performers benefit from scalping?

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#44

Post by brookst »

janalsncm wrote: post #41
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #7

I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

You are describing rent-seeking behavior: middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions. Yes, this is “normal” in the sense that it is common. It is “normal” in the same way that cancer is “normal”. No, this is not “normal” in the sense of being behavior the government should just tolerate. It is in the same category of market failures as monopolies and externalities.

So is all demand-based pricing rent-seeking? Like selling gold or a house or any other scarce good for more than you paid?

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#45

Post by brookst »

fecal_henge wrote: post #12
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #7

I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

The ultimate customers would certainly pay more than the face price which is what the scalpers pay, yet the scalpers get all the tickets. This is abnormal market behaviour.

What’s normal?

An auction would be the obvious solution, and I guess you could argue it effectively is an auction, just with initial sales that pretend to be a race and are actually sold to speculators who then run the auction.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#46

Post by gruez »

johnthedebs wrote: post #36
gruez wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process. Airports seem to handle them just fine?

Do they? Not necessarily making an argument for or against the original point, but to me airports epitomize "slow and tedious". My hunch is that they also don't handle nearly the volume of people/time that major stadiums do during event entry.

>but to me airports epitomize "slow and tedious".

That's the security check, of which id check is only one part. The bottleneck is everyone needing to take out their laptops and then repack their bags. Same with boarding. The bottleneck there is people putting their luggage into the overhead compartments.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#47

Post by Brendinooo »

brookst wrote: post #44
janalsncm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing rent-seeking behavior: middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions. Yes, this is “normal” in the sense that it is common. It is “normal” in the same way that cancer is “normal”. No, this is not “normal” in the sense of being behavior the government should just tolerate. It is in the same category of market failures as monopolies and externalities.

So is all demand-based pricing rent-seeking? Like selling gold or a house or any other scarce good for more than you paid?

I think that if you poke at the term "rent-seeking" with the definition of "middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions", you'll just end up arguing about what "adding economic value" means.

That said...if you can do that, you'll probably find that some additions of economic value are far more defensible than others, so it shouldn't all be flattened in the manner you're suggesting.

I mean, scalpers add economic value, right?! They allow (wealthier) people who didn't stand in line at the right time to have a chance to purchase a ticket!

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#48

Post by reactordev »

dopamean wrote: post #22

The article makes it sound like the information about Andro is new but it has been known for years. An SEC filing[0] from March of last year mentions it and I was able to find a post on Wall Street Oasis[1] talking about Andro three years ago. Awful, predatory behavior for sure. Is it just the issues with the World Cup ticket sales that have made people care about this? [0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/133…

Those with ties to the industry have known for decades.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#49

Post by reactordev »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #23
dclaw wrote: post #20

End it. Make reselling tickets illegal again overall. Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.

Live Nation needs to get the guillotine. The monopoly will find other ways of extracting value if you try to fix one problem created by it at a time.

Except Live Nation owns most of the venues that aren’t stadiums. The mom and pop’s couldn’t compete with their monopoly and went under or sold to them.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#50

Post by rtpg »

sofixa wrote: post #24
Analemma_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that "the name on the ticket must match your photo ID, but you can resell at any time before the event" would instantly solve scalping problems and yet nobody does it is your clue that nobody actually wants scalping problems to be solved. Scalpers are the sin eaters for Ticketmaster and the events themselves, taking the hate so the performers don't have to.

Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process.

Maybe a bit of a dystopian situation but ... I think this was 10 year ago now I went to an Utada Hikaru concert where I had to upload a picture of myself on a dedicated website and when the tickets were scanned I think they had access to that picture
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