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Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

bbc.com

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Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#41

Post by wolvoleo »

12958715 wrote: post #10

People have no money for cars. Maybe boomers whose health insurance you subsidize and whose overpriced apartments you rent can still afford one. Everyone else struggles with health insurance up more than 100% in 10 years, Döner up 100% in 6 years, electricity costs etc. But we feel good about the "rules based international order", which only the EU follows right now, dictated by public servants with inflation-indexed…

I'm really happy not having a car anymore though. It gives me a lot of freedom. When I had a car I had to think about when to get back to it because of parking fees. To get it fixed/maintained. To have to return to the place I left it (I often walk across town). I couldn't have a drink before going back home.

There were a few pluses like bringing big stuff and going outside of the city but I rarely do those things.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#42

Post by wolvoleo »

mk89 wrote: post #8
rjsw wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU didn't close any nuclear plants, that was just Germany.

OP said "Germany decided". EU did the Green Deal, though, which is way worse than shutting down a few nuclear reactors that after all didn't produce that much energy anymore and were anyways planned to be shut down.

The green deal is needed to make sure we can still live in this world 50 years from now.

We're already feeling the effects of climate change pretty heavily and it's only just starting. If anything the deal was too little too late.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#43

Post by alephnerd »

jacooper wrote: post #33
alephnerd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> switching some lines to building military It got vetoed by Qatar (their SWF owns 17% of all voting shares in Volkswagen) because that would have meant working with Israeli companies [0] despite Germany being dependent on the Israeli Arrow system [1] to counter Russian systems. Now that factory (Osnabrueck) is one of the factories on the chopping block. And this is why Volkswagen is going to be a slow moving train c…

Bohoo, can't build weapons for genociders, poor me! What a shitty management that can't find any solutions other than building weapons for war criminals.

> What a shitty management that can't find any solutions other than building weapons for war criminals

No one else wants the factory nor the workers other than Rafael's JV with the German government. Now they are part of the 100,000 being laid off.

Germany (and Romania) will still use the Iron Dome and other Israeli systems, but now it'll be "Made in India" [0], so the only people impacted were VW employees in Osnabrueck who are now laid off.

[0] - https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/byaub5cmfl

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#44

Post by segfaultex »

tangenter wrote: post #6

VW is a massive casualty, but the future of automotive is currently a cutthroat war between BYD and Tesla. Everyone else is, at best, a second tier competitor. Auto industry/dealerships for trad cars is not looking good.

BYD sure, but I have serious long-term doubts about teslas ability to capture any significant market share. They’ve dropped to their lowest level in the US since ~2017 and frankly their products are awful.

We just bought an EV last year and tried everyone. The teslas were the second worst in our opinion. The worst were the rivian products, just horrible UX, poor engineering, poor assembly, clear rent-seeking behavior, etc.

BMW, Ford, and GM make better vehicles and better EVs.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#45

Post by alephnerd »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #5
shaism wrote: post #4

It is unfortunate for the employees but it is necessary, and hopefully also a wake up call for other German companies and the government. It’s time for leaner structures, smaller teams, faster decisions, and shorter development cycles. Volkswagen, like no other company, symbolizes the lethargy of the German economy and business environment. Hopefully, the seven years with barely any economic growth will end soon.

> Volkswagen, like no other company, symbolizes the lethargy of the German economy and business environment A car development cycle is/was seven years in Germany. And that was totally fine. When the "Golf 7" comes up, the "Golf 8" doesn't come out only 2 years after. What happened is the EU (and Germany in particular) left only two development cycles to the biggest industry in Germany (and hence the biggest industry…

> Audi, Porsche

Both are part of VW Group and have seen marketshare fall as well due to tariffs as well as China cutting down on foreign luxury brands in favor of domestic ones.

Barely 5 years ago a black Audi A8 was the go-to VIP car in China.

> BMW and Mercedes (Daimler Grouo)

They will survive, but they also made sure to diversify beyond China and the US, which VW never did which is why they are so screwed.

> I've got nothing against EVs... But don't be an ideological idiot about it: don't kill your main industry while handing the keys of the kingdown to China. The shift was way too quick...

Also

1. Don't have half of your production depend on the mercy of two SOEs (FAW and SAIC) who are trying to build indigenous competitors.

2. Diversify markets - America and China don't want to buy "Made in Europe" cars anymore. Mercedes and BMW made sure they were status symbols in multiple markets the same way VW's Audi and Porsche never could.

3. Don't let other countries have veto power within your largest conglomerates - Qatar has veto power and 17% of all voting shares in Volkswagen Group

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#46

Post by fnordian_slip »

OKRainbowKid wrote: post #37
fnordian_slip wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does this obvious falsehood get repeated so much on hn Everyone can look up what the CDU did, it's not like they did it in secret. It's bad enough that nuclear proponents ignore the massive cost of nuclear compared to renewables once you factor in building costs, insurance and storage imho. But then to pretend like the conservatives didn't have a choice but to bungle the nuclear exit really is too much. The CDU n…

Yeah it's crazy, in every post about Germany inevitably the nuclear phase out will get brought up and the comments/discussions always seem like a shit show of misinformation to me. And it's always how nuclear is being phased out in favor of coal and gas and that's why energy is expensive, industry is dying, and the Greens and or EU are to blame for all of it. It's tiring, really, and I have the impression that these…

As we are supposed to strongman other commenters arguments here, I'd say they are not posting to produce a narrative, but rather that they have allowed themselves to believe that they are the "obviously right", and everyone who believes otherwise is driven to do so by ideology instead of logic.

By painting the opposition to nuclear energy as emotionally driven, they can assure themselves that their position is rational, and this allows them to subconsciously ignore the evidence against it.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#47

Post by throwaway270925 »

a34729t wrote: post #36
12958715 wrote: post #10

People have no money for cars. Maybe boomers whose health insurance you subsidize and whose overpriced apartments you rent can still afford one. Everyone else struggles with health insurance up more than 100% in 10 years, Döner up 100% in 6 years, electricity costs etc. But we feel good about the "rules based international order", which only the EU follows right now, dictated by public servants with inflation-indexed…

Americans and Chinese have money for cars. Europeans, less so.

Americans dont have the money either, they just need that car anyway because there are no other options in most of the US.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#48

Post by jacooper »

alephnerd wrote: post #43
jacooper wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bohoo, can't build weapons for genociders, poor me! What a shitty management that can't find any solutions other than building weapons for war criminals.

> What a shitty management that can't find any solutions other than building weapons for war criminals No one else wants the factory nor the workers other than Rafael's JV with the German government. Now they are part of the 100,000 being laid off. Germany (and Romania) will still use the Iron Dome and other Israeli systems, but now it'll be "Made in India" [0], so the only people impacted were VW employees in Osnabr…

Again, Bohoo, shitty management can't find another solution somehow.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#49

Post by beAbU »

tangenter wrote: post #6

VW is a massive casualty, but the future of automotive is currently a cutthroat war between BYD and Tesla. Everyone else is, at best, a second tier competitor. Auto industry/dealerships for trad cars is not looking good.

Tesla? You serious?

The same tesla tha cancelled the model 2, and subsequently they don't have anything to offer the affordable-urban-transporter market? The same tesla that's going all in on robotics and AI and somewhat forgetting about their car maker heritage?

You comment is very American centric. Kia and Hyundai is fucking smashing it in Europe at the moment, and the likes of Renault is coming out with seriously good and seriously competitive offers.

Re: Volkswagen planning to cut up to 100.000 jobs globally

#50

Post by OKRainbowKid »

fnordian_slip wrote: post #46
OKRainbowKid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's crazy, in every post about Germany inevitably the nuclear phase out will get brought up and the comments/discussions always seem like a shit show of misinformation to me. And it's always how nuclear is being phased out in favor of coal and gas and that's why energy is expensive, industry is dying, and the Greens and or EU are to blame for all of it. It's tiring, really, and I have the impression that these…

As we are supposed to strongman other commenters arguments here, I'd say they are not posting to produce a narrative, but rather that they have allowed themselves to believe that they are the "obviously right", and everyone who believes otherwise is driven to do so by ideology instead of logic. By painting the opposition to nuclear energy as emotionally driven, they can assure themselves that their position is ration…

Thank you, and I agree. Your phrasing more accurately reflects what I meant to say.
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