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Capitalism Gone Wrong

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Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#41

Post by rhelz »

blooalien wrote: post #7
rhelz wrote: post #3

It's not capitalism gone wrong. It's a great example of a historic success of capitalism. You can't expect capitalism to solve your addiction problems.

> "You can't expect capitalism to solve your addiction problems." You can hope and wish that they would have at least enough ethics to not actively abuse psychology and the way human brains are hard-wired to totally take unfair advantage of those facts to extract maximum profit for a tiny handful of humanity at the expense of everyone everywhere pretty much.

Sure, better ethical principles might solve this. But extracting maximum profit is the prime directive of capitalism. This might be shit ethics, but it is brilliant capitalism.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#42

Post by rhelz »

goatlover wrote: post #9
rhelz wrote: post #3

It's not capitalism gone wrong. It's a great example of a historic success of capitalism. You can't expect capitalism to solve your addiction problems.

Should it be allowed to intentionally make addiction problems worse?

Depends upon how laze-faire you want your capitalism to be.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#43

Post by rhelz »

simianwords wrote: post #29
Analemma_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is emblematic of a certain kind of foolish libertarian thinking where capitalism is treated as an end rather than a means. To normal people, the entire selling point of capitalism is that it is pitched as the best way to achieve a happy and comfortable life for the greatest number. If it's working against that end, what good is it? Toss it out and replace it.

You have zero theory of mind if you think the poster is a libertarian instead of making a tongue in cheek comment

I'm still refactoring my theory of mind in the face of the obvious successes of AI.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#44

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

rhelz wrote: post #40
bgun wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you are not the one addicted, other people’s addiction problems are still your problems. Being blind to that fact makes you both complicit in it and vulnerable to it.

Sure, they are your problems, but to expect capitalism to solve your addiction is just magical thinking.

I see three problems here.

1) You’re misunderstanding the concept of magical thinking. It is not an umbrella term for false expectations. Magical thinking occurs when a person assumes that their thoughts, words, or actions can influence, cause, or prevent events that are not causally connected, thereby disregarding conventional rules of cause and effect. Or one could also say that a hidden causality is assumed where common sense would recognize that none exists.

2) You’re confusing the societal level with the individual level. The expectation that my own personal problem will be solved for me is different from the expectation that a society will get a handle on a widespread problem among its people. The first sounds like someone should take more personal responsibility. The second is a reasonable expectation.

3) You leave open what follows from this. If capitalism can’t deliver on this, what should be done? Should it be reformed or overcome? Should we simply accept that many people will be harmed and let things take their course? If so, I’d like to know why we don’t also turn off all traffic lights, remove all traffic signs, and abolish all traffic rules.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#45

Post by lenkite »

changoplatanero wrote: post #14

How come legislators want to stop social media companies from using their power to manipulate consumers, but aren’t as interested in other industries doing the same? Like imagine how much harm is caused by the luxury fashion industry manipulating people to spend $20,000 on ugly leather bags? Or the jewelry industry in getting people to buy shiny rocks? Or sports gambling companies? That money could have been used for…

> How come legislators want to stop social media companies from using their power to manipulate consumers, but aren’t as interested in other industries doing the same?

Because its like comparing murder with genocide. You have to stop the enormously larger problem first before you get around to fixing your nails.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#47

Post by tim333 »

I'm not sure producers wanting you to spend time on their stuff is that wrong. Hollywood aren't going to start deliberately making crap movies so no one watches. It's a consumer choice what you spend your time on.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#48

Post by dTal »

jmathai wrote: post #4

I agree with everything the article says. I think there are two questions that we should be asking. 1. Can we point to a time when Capitalism peaked in terms of a balance of maximal benefit for as many people as possible? In my lifetime, it was somewhere in the late 1990s and early 2000s. No singular answer but something better exists than where we are now. 2. How do we rewind capitalism to that point?

1. No. It was always awful for an unacceptable number of people. It's just your turn to feel the pinch. I suspect you'd get a different answer if you asked someone from China.

2. We have to look forwards, not backwards. Yesterday contained the seeds of today. Today contains the seeds of tomorrow. No point rewinding unless you want history to repeat.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#49

Post by dTal »

Analemma_ wrote: post #33
simianwords wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have zero theory of mind if you think the poster is a libertarian instead of making a tongue in cheek comment

I don't think the parent is being tongue-in-cheek, and even if he is, plenty of people have expressed that sentiment seriously. Robin Hanson famously thinks addiction is impossible (or rather, that it's a true expression of revealed preference), which he ideologically needs to do because to admit otherwise creates problems for his defense of unrestrained capitalism.

I'm curious how he rationalizes the thriving market for nicotine patches.
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