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A love letter to flashcards

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41–50 of 124 posts

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#41
My sense is the same as the authors that LLMs + an Anki-like -> mediocrity. But I feel like there ought to be such potential there! Even just things as simple as rewording the same question a bunch of equivalent ways to avoid recognizing the sentence structure...

Downside for AI potential as a whole, framed broadly: We don't seem to be good enough yet at identifying what friction is functional and what we should strive to automate/eliminate.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#42
I once took a psychology course with my girlfriend at the time. She and her pals would be up all night studying with flashcards. I'd just walk into class, learn about it, never study, and get A's on the tests.

When they asked me how I was doing it I explained that I'm there to learn understand the topic and I don't give a damn about the test. So I just let my curiosity lead the way, it causes me to ask questions in and out of class, email the professor about them, do my own research and experiments. Despite not letting the test be my guide, this prepared me for the test anyhow.

I'm glad they work for some people, but flashcards to me seem like they provide a shallow kind of understanding. I don't want to remember the equation, I want to be able to derive it in a pinch, and flash cards don't give me that.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#43

The best advice I've ever read about flash cards is if you are dreading to review, because you are forgetting your cards or they are too complicated, you are writing cards wrong. Learning is supposed to be fun! Also, Common Core should ship Anki decks. I seriously think so many problems with education stem from students not realizing that memorizing is actually very easy with FSRS, and thus struggling and hating lear…

I feel like...that's terrible advice? Voluntary retrieval (the memory "mode" of flashcards), even for simple pairs, is perceived as highly effortful by almost everyone, on a similar tier to doing mental math. It's incredibly efficient for learning, and achieving your goals quickly can be very rewarding, but I don't think "learning flashcards should be fun!" is a reasonable expectation for the vast majority of people.

Most people don't use flash cards at all. So if their experience with them is terrible then why would they keep doing it? Also effort can be fun. Working out is effortful and most people don't do it. So, they should go to the gym and try to have a good time. If they aren't, maybe the advice to do some 5x5 program or Jocko whatever workout is not good for them. It's just a heuristic to stay motivated. But yeah, my friend just finished med school and memorized like 30k extremely complicated cards. He did not "have fun".

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#44

I use Anki to learn French, Chess openings/tactics/techniques, to unscramble letters for scrabble, for Pub Trivia... The options are kind of limitless. As a mid-30s guy who has well passed the neuroplasticity of his teen years, it's a godsend for me. To echo the author's thoughts though, I can't prove empirically that I learn more effectively using Anki (or spaced repetition) than other methods... Only anecdotally. I…

Practicing your retrieval is actually one of the best ways to retain knowledge of something. Flashcard programs like Anki are really great because it identifies where you need more work and drills you on your weak points -- it feels awkward working constantly on your weak points, but you get quantifiably better results with the flashcard method it uses. Some people criticize flashcards as optimizing for rote memoriza…

My problem with Anki is that it's very, very inefficient. It will take much more time and effort to memorize the vocabulary words you learn, and losing those words is very quick. It's much better to use SRS with actual and varied sentences.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#45
post #41

My sense is the same as the authors that LLMs + an Anki-like -> mediocrity. But I feel like there ought to be such potential there! Even just things as simple as rewording the same question a bunch of equivalent ways to avoid recognizing the sentence structure... Downside for AI potential as a whole, framed broadly: We don't seem to be good enough yet at identifying what friction is functional and what we should stri…

There's an arena/research report by Ozzie Kirkby and Andy Matuschak at https://memory-machines.com/ which you might find interesting.

I predict that things will be 'good' within the next 5 years, but your intuition is correct (and the SOTA models are often producing worse prompts than older models).

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#46

The best advice I've ever read about flash cards is if you are dreading to review, because you are forgetting your cards or they are too complicated, you are writing cards wrong. Learning is supposed to be fun! Also, Common Core should ship Anki decks. I seriously think so many problems with education stem from students not realizing that memorizing is actually very easy with FSRS, and thus struggling and hating lear…

I feel like...that's terrible advice? Voluntary retrieval (the memory "mode" of flashcards), even for simple pairs, is perceived as highly effortful by almost everyone, on a similar tier to doing mental math. It's incredibly efficient for learning, and achieving your goals quickly can be very rewarding, but I don't think "learning flashcards should be fun!" is a reasonable expectation for the vast majority of people.

It's a balance. Maybe a helpful analogy would be a book -- yes, reading a book is effortful, and yes, "almost everyone" does not read. Still, I think most wouldn't consider it crazy to say that reading can be "fun."

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#47

I once took a psychology course with my girlfriend at the time. She and her pals would be up all night studying with flashcards. I'd just walk into class, learn about it, never study, and get A's on the tests. When they asked me how I was doing it I explained that I'm there to learn understand the topic and I don't give a damn about the test. So I just let my curiosity lead the way, it causes me to ask questions in a…

I think that really depends on how you use the cards. I know medicine students who clearly are passionate about their subject, but just need to get the reminders on individual terms because there’s such a wide range of topics they need to be prepared for, and lots of very similar words.

I also know that in math courses, there’s certain formulas with similar names I simply need to remember because deriving them on a test would be too time consuming. Or I could imagine in chemistry there’s various special cases that you’d want to be able to recite on a test.

I’ve never tried it for language learning but people talk highly of it, so there’s definitely some truth in their utility there.

I think the trick is flash cards are fantastic supplementally with other studying strategies.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#48

I once took a psychology course with my girlfriend at the time. She and her pals would be up all night studying with flashcards. I'd just walk into class, learn about it, never study, and get A's on the tests. When they asked me how I was doing it I explained that I'm there to learn understand the topic and I don't give a damn about the test. So I just let my curiosity lead the way, it causes me to ask questions in a…

It depends on the subject. For classes/subjects that are very terminology-heavy, with a lot of dependencies between topics, memorizing things is a pre-requisite to the "deeper" understanding, especially under time-constraint of a semester or whatever. I think most people would agree that it's ideal to "naturally" explore a subject in order to get a deeper understanding of it, but one can't always be expected to 1. Be able to deploy that "curiosity" for all subjects at any time and 2. Be able to adequately achieve competence in a subject within the given timeframe

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#49

I once took a psychology course with my girlfriend at the time. She and her pals would be up all night studying with flashcards. I'd just walk into class, learn about it, never study, and get A's on the tests. When they asked me how I was doing it I explained that I'm there to learn understand the topic and I don't give a damn about the test. So I just let my curiosity lead the way, it causes me to ask questions in a…

What about classes that weren't interesting to you, but you had to pass anyway? Personally I was the same as you for classes that I found interesting, but for other required classes I went for the shallow understanding, memorize for the test approach.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#50
For language learning, I wish there was an audio-first flashcard app that changes up the example sentences every time. Right now, I'm using Anki to learn Japanese vocabulary from N5 to N3[1]. I know the words and the example sentences well enough to read N3-level text, provided I know the grammar. But when it comes to listening, I struggle to understand even N4-level spoken Japanese. Anki just doesn't offer enough variety for me to truly internalize what the sound means in different contexts. Plus, seeing the text before hearing the audio tricks my brain. I think I'm learning the sound, but it's an illusion because I already know the meaning from seeing the word first.

[1] I feel like Anki offers diminishing returns once you get past N3. Advanced words usually have subtle nuances that you can only really pick up through rich context, like in a full paragraph or a TV scene. Native-speaking kids can understand complex words in context because they have a deep grasp of a smaller, simpler vocabulary. That’s why I’m focusing on mastering high-frequency, simple words first to build a learning flywheel. I'm hoping this will eventually let me pick up new words naturally through reading and listening, just like a native kid does.

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