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On Heroku and 2012

kennethreitz.org

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Re: On Heroku and 2012

#41

Post by xradionut »

w3pm wrote: post #38
atomical wrote: post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

Agreed. What I've seen happen is the company becomes destructively divided into two camps: Those who have a slightly too healthy work-life balance and take liberal amounts of vacation, and those who have a tendency towards work-aholism, take little vacation, and grow to resent the first group as a result. What works much better is to just decide on what's an acceptable amount of vacation, say 3 weeks, and tell everyo…

Or those in the first camp that expect those in the second camp to do their work. That's where the resentment may stem from.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#42

Post by dfnkt »

gbog wrote: post #17

> Don't spend a single moment in life doing something you don't want to do. This advice or its cousins are found in many places around here and, well, I have a bad feeling about it. Is it not the epitome of egoism? Is it possible to share a house with friends, or a spouse, or your kids, without ever "doing something you don't want to do"? And in professional life, if you are a janitor, do you "want" to clean this toi…

I think it would be better written as:

As long as you have the power to change it, don't spend a single moment in life doing something you don't want to do.

I think it's a call to action and relates to mustering the will to do what really matters.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#43

Post by gizzlon »

gbog wrote: post #17

> Don't spend a single moment in life doing something you don't want to do. This advice or its cousins are found in many places around here and, well, I have a bad feeling about it. Is it not the epitome of egoism? Is it possible to share a house with friends, or a spouse, or your kids, without ever "doing something you don't want to do"? And in professional life, if you are a janitor, do you "want" to clean this toi…

Exactly. I read statements like that as either hyperbole or plain bullshit. Either way, they're not really helpful or profound.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#44

Post by shykes »

LordIllidan wrote: post #37
shykes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, forgot to explain. 3+2 means "3 weeks accrued over the year and usable anytime, 2 weeks of company-wide break (specifically the weeks of thanksgiving and christmas)". The decision to do a company-wide break probably deserves a thread of its own. The short version is that it works great.

What about support?

Good question, there are special arrangements for support and 24/7 on-call rotation (eg. if you have to work during the company break you get vacation days). It's also very easy to trade on-call days with colleagues, and other ad-hoc arrangements.

I'm not 100% certain this would work in a bigger company where people think of it as "just a job". But in a small team where everybody is passionate and eager to make it successful, it works great.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#45

Post by shykes »

robbles wrote: post #33
shykes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, forgot to explain. 3+2 means "3 weeks accrued over the year and usable anytime, 2 weeks of company-wide break (specifically the weeks of thanksgiving and christmas)". The decision to do a company-wide break probably deserves a thread of its own. The short version is that it works great.

Wait, how do you have a week-long "company-wide" break? Does that mean nobody is working for a whole week?

Yes, that's what it means, with the exception of support and on-call rotation.

Let's face it: american companies are not productive over thanksgiving and christmas. They just pretend to be. By making these 2 weeks vacation, we simply embrace reality.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#46

Post by famousactress »

shykes wrote: post #19
famousactress wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does 3+2 mean "3 required, optionally take 2 additional"?

Sorry, forgot to explain. 3+2 means "3 weeks accrued over the year and usable anytime, 2 weeks of company-wide break (specifically the weeks of thanksgiving and christmas)". The decision to do a company-wide break probably deserves a thread of its own. The short version is that it works great.

So... First year folks are 2+1. So does that mean on the week or Thanksgiving (or Christmas) you guys are like "See 'ya newbies, we'll be back in a week."?

Or maybe the 2+1 was for the first year you were a company, as opposed to individual's tenure?

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#47

Post by LordIllidan »

shykes wrote: post #44
LordIllidan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about support?

Good question, there are special arrangements for support and 24/7 on-call rotation (eg. if you have to work during the company break you get vacation days). It's also very easy to trade on-call days with colleagues, and other ad-hoc arrangements. I'm not 100% certain this would work in a bigger company where people think of it as "just a job". But in a small team where everybody is passionate and eager to make it su…

Thanks for the answer - I thought it would be something like this. Taking 2 weeks off during the holiday period is a great thing to do!

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#48

Post by shykes »

famousactress wrote: post #46
shykes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, forgot to explain. 3+2 means "3 weeks accrued over the year and usable anytime, 2 weeks of company-wide break (specifically the weeks of thanksgiving and christmas)". The decision to do a company-wide break probably deserves a thread of its own. The short version is that it works great.

So... First year folks are 2+1. So does that mean on the week or Thanksgiving (or Christmas) you guys are like "See 'ya newbies, we'll be back in a week."? Or maybe the 2+1 was for the first year you were a company, as opposed to individual's tenure?

Yes, that's what it means :) We've put this in place for 2 reasons:

1) The 1st year at dotCloud is a big step for us, and a lot of people didn't make it in the past. Making it means that somebody has truly proven his worth (since he or she wasn't fired) and has adapted to our unusual culture (since he or she didn't resign). By attaching perks like this to the anniversary, we emphasize its importance.

2) We don't want people to join for the vacation. We take a lot of breaks because that's what intense, hard-working people need to avoid burnout. But the majority of people on the job market are not hard-working and intense enough for our standards - we're hoping this will help us filter for them.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#49

Post by jpadvo »

unimpressive wrote: post #10
jpadvo wrote: post #5

> Life's not a race, but there's no speed limit either. I love this. I've been learning recently that one of my chief sources of stress is feeling pinched for time. Mainly from feeling like I'm not getting as much done as I need to (I'm a cofounder of a bootstrapped startup). But what I've discovered is that if I relax, and enjoy the feeling of progress as it happens, I can be much more excited about work. And a much…

Reminded me of this story: https://sivers.org/kimo

Thank you -- I haven't read that story in a long time, and it is a great reminder.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#50

Post by bengl3rt »

bgentry wrote: post #32
fyvush82 wrote: post #27

I don't follow this "I work for Heroku" stuff. He works for Salesforce, which Heroku is a part of, no?

Salesforce owns Heroku, and we leverage that relationship where it makes sense. Other than that, Heroku operates independently of Salesforce, which is how both sides want it to be. We have our own office, we're keeping our brand, and we operate the business as we see fit. We're 2 years into the acquisition with no signs of that relationship changing anytime soon.

A better question is, why don't some of the reasons that it's so great to work for Heroku symbiotically trickle up to the behemoth parent company?
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