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America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

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Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#41

Post by bevekspldnw »

artisinal wrote: post #10
seomint wrote: post #6

Step one: air conditioning. Step two: AI superpower.

Step one will result in the collapse of the pension system. We need to first make the pension system more robust before proceeding to roll out air conditioning across the continent.

Lack of air conditioning is leading to massive excess deaths among the elderly during heat waves.

Culling out the elderly during the annual heat waves is quickly becoming a European tradition.

That said…refusing to adopt AC may be Europe’s de facto solution to the pension crisis!

I thought it was was foolish insanity, but now I understand it’s just sound pension policy.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#42

Post by inglor_cz »

schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

I am not sure whether an average European is more risk averse than an average American or Chinese. This is hard to measure. But in general, technological progress mostly does not depend on average people, and we have more than enough young warriors to try new things. Unfortunately the regulatory environment pushes them out to North America, where you don't have to jump through so many bureaucratic hoops.

Now the funny thing: everyone I talk to agrees that Europe is overregulated and that the amount of paperwork is unhealthy. But everyone also seems to have their own pet regulation that they will defend to death, and the sum of those pet regulations is basically the entire suffocating code. After all, those papers usually aren't brainchild of the bureaucrats themselves; they came into being as a result of lobbying of special interests, and those special interests usually still exist and are vigilant about protecting their achievements.

I am not sure if anyone, anywhere ever achieved an actual significant reduction of bureaucracy (say, by 30-40 per cent or more) by anything less than a societal collapse or a debellatio during a military defeat, Germany 1945 style. This seems to be the hardest, most intractable societal problem of entire humanity. Not cancer, not aging - we can probably conquer both. But an endless aggregation of more and more papers until the entire machine stops in its tracks.

I just had an across-fence talk with my neighbor, who is a retired teacher. She is not that old, and she told me that she retired voluntarily after the balance of her work shifted to "I spent more time filling out questionnaires and records than actually teaching kids".

Oof.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#43

Post by artisinal »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #41
artisinal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step one will result in the collapse of the pension system. We need to first make the pension system more robust before proceeding to roll out air conditioning across the continent.

Lack of air conditioning is leading to massive excess deaths among the elderly during heat waves. Culling out the elderly during the annual heat waves is quickly becoming a European tradition. That said…refusing to adopt AC may be Europe’s de facto solution to the pension crisis! I thought it was was foolish insanity, but now I understand it’s just sound pension policy.

Yep. Elderly life isn’t worth a €2000 AC install. Grandma will just have to sacrifice herself so the pension systems and healthcare systems do not collapse. Sorry Oma.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#44

Post by titanomachy »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
peterspath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step zero: make energy as cheap as possible... no taxes on it

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

Referring to humanity as "consumers" is gross.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#45

Post by hraxz »

stockerta wrote: post #8

Nah, we will be fine. AI isn't sustainable, financially or otherwise. It will collapse and take a big chunk of the US economy with it.

"AI isn't sustainable" is a completely meaningless statement but exemplary of the thought patterns of the bumper sticker thought compression of the social media addict.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#47

Post by bevekspldnw »

schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

Europe’s biggest problems are a cultural superiority complex (we’re better than brutish Americans who only care about money), combined with deep seated racism (we’re better than our former colonies, eg China), and a heavy dose of denialism (buying cheap Russian oil could never bite us in the ass).

Thinking you’re superior to everybody else and sticking your head in the sand isn’t exactly the recipe for success.

There’s also a huge talent drain: many Europeans who realize the superiority complex isn’t built on solid foundations - particularly in science, engineering, research, and development - leave to the US because they want to be with the best, which aren’t solely Americans, it’s people from around the world who aggregate in the US.

Europe has a brief window to be the new global talent hub as MAGA is attempting to destroy the US edge from within, but Europe is absolutely blowing it with mini-MAGA movements instead.

Europe has a lot to offer, but it needs to get real about where it stands in the world.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#48

Post by inglor_cz »

KetoManx64 wrote: post #11
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

So an anarcho-capitalist society?

It may be necessary in some situation.

If you look at current Ukraine, its drone sector is basically anarcho-capitalist. Little to no regulation, people do what they want with extremely short OODA loops. It also works in the sense that is stopped Muscovy in its tracks and Ukraine became the worldwide hub of innovation when it comes to military robots, even though it only has maybe 25 million people left in its territory, and economy the size of Nebraska.

Much richer and safer countries to the west of it just cannot keep pace and resort to licensing Ukrainian designs for their own production. Including the US.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#49

Post by scotty79 »

KetoManx64 wrote: post #11
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

So an anarcho-capitalist society?

Absolutely not. Strict pro-consumer regulations, tightly following technological advancements, balancing consumer choice with consumer safety, with complete disregard for any capitalistic interests.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#50

Post by scotty79 »

titanomachy wrote: post #44
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

Referring to humanity as "consumers" is gross.

Really?

Referring to someone as the "consumer" is talking about the part of their life where they exert their economic power to fulfill their and their dependents needs and desires.

When you say "worker" you are talking about the time when they sell their life away and suspend their freedoms to get resources to stay alive. So basically when they are at their lowest. It should feel way more offensive to you and the fact it doesn't says a lot about how the culture was shaped to benefit who it benefits.

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