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Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

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Re: Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

#41

Post by Exoristos »

lioeters wrote: post #40
Exoristos wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting to me that you employ religion as the pejorative comparison here, when it's the inherent human religions that have perceived in plants gods and spirits since before the beginning of recorded time.

Perceiving plant gods and spirits is closer to experimental science, attempts to describe and make sense of your actual lived experience. Dismissing them without any evidence or experience, just because they don't fit in the worldview you grew up in, is closer to religion.

Perceiving plant gods and spirits is religion.

Re: Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

#42

Post by t-writescode »

Exoristos wrote: post #41
lioeters wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perceiving plant gods and spirits is closer to experimental science, attempts to describe and make sense of your actual lived experience. Dismissing them without any evidence or experience, just because they don't fit in the worldview you grew up in, is closer to religion.

Perceiving plant gods and spirits is religion.

It's spirituality. Religions tend to have creeds.

You wouldn't call every animist belief the same religion's name. That's a loooot of religions that believe those things - the vast, vast majority of them, in fact.

Re: Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

#44

Post by computerdork »

pks016 wrote: post #36
computerdork wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! Could you break this down further? Maybe specific examples of what you're mentioning might help - for instance, what "similar-sounding calls with different functions" are zebra finches discriminating between? What exactly are different situations of these functions? How exactly (and through what experiments) did she determine this? And I read the article (but not her research paper), and have a vague ide…

Yeah, the paper is indeed difficult to read (even for me). I read it a while back. I'll try to explain. So, there are few things to know before and see what we're trying to prove. main thing: Categorical perception: (in short) brain perceive similar sounding sounds (say A and B) in a continuous manner, and in the continuum of two sound, there would be a point where one sound (A) will switch and sound like the other s…

Thanks for the explanation on this. Think I partially understand. Birds can distinguish calls on at least two characteristics, by the sound of it and by its function. And the authors have developed experiments to show that birds can do both. Is this correct or did I get on the wrong track?

Re: Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

#45

Post by pks016 »

computerdork wrote: post #44
pks016 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the paper is indeed difficult to read (even for me). I read it a while back. I'll try to explain. So, there are few things to know before and see what we're trying to prove. main thing: Categorical perception: (in short) brain perceive similar sounding sounds (say A and B) in a continuous manner, and in the continuum of two sound, there would be a point where one sound (A) will switch and sound like the other s…

Thanks for the explanation on this. Think I partially understand. Birds can distinguish calls on at least two characteristics, by the sound of it and by its function. And the authors have developed experiments to show that birds can do both. Is this correct or did I get on the wrong track?

Yes. Kind of. They showed that birds can do function/meaning of calls (e.g., contact call group) using the meaning not other cues (e.g. duration, acoustic similarity of calls etc.).

Re: Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

#46

Post by computerdork »

pks016 wrote: post #45
computerdork wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation on this. Think I partially understand. Birds can distinguish calls on at least two characteristics, by the sound of it and by its function. And the authors have developed experiments to show that birds can do both. Is this correct or did I get on the wrong track?

Yes. Kind of. They showed that birds can do function/meaning of calls (e.g., contact call group) using the meaning not other cues (e.g. duration, acoustic similarity of calls etc.).

Ah okay, thanks!

Re: Breaking the Bird Barrier: Scientist Decodes Zebra Finch Language

#48

Post by superkuh »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #12
ileonichwiesz wrote: post #3

Very interesting topic, but a strange choice of source. I'd recommend these instead: Coller foundation press release: https://www.jeremycollerfoundation.org/news-and-insights/pre... The actual publication in Science: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ads8482

Here's a non-paywalled version of the research. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.11.14.623689v1....

Unfortunately that link is behind a proof of javascript computational paywall by cloudflare.
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