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Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

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Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#41

Post by ksec »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #12
0xy wrote: post #3

I think it's incredibly unlikely to be deliberate price fixing this time. Demand is too high.

Two things can be true; they could theoretically make agreements to limit supply, like the OPEC does to exert control over international oil prices. But the OPEC is all above board and there's plenty of international competition on the oil market. But the challenge is in proving it.

It isn't like OPEC and oil where you can turn on and off bumping out from the ground.

The most expensive foundry / fab isn't the leading edge, it is the "empty" ones. You can't have a fab sitting idle.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#42

Post by ksec »

mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

>It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

Depends if US can demand ASML which uses plenty of US tech inside. In reality even the DRAM and NAND supply chain has plenty of US technologies.

And you say Micron are US but they have lots of Fabs in Japan as well since they acquired Elpida.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#43

Post by bilekas »

mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

> What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction?

They would lose access to their largest market, I'm sure shareholders would havesomething to say about that ?

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#45

Post by mrtksn »

ksec wrote: post #42
mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

>It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling. Depends if US can demand ASML which uses plenty of US tech inside. In reality even the DRAM and NAND supply chain has plenty of US technologies. And you say Micron are US but they have lots of Fabs in Japan as well since they acquired Elpida.

Everyone is using something from someone, you can even argue that US owes India and Europe huge compensation because pretty much everything US did in the last half century was made using technology or people funded by those people. Johny Ive is British, Almost all the AI stuff is created by Europeans, Israelis, and Canadians - thus funded by their respective taxpayers.

The thing about the US losing its grip on the world and the collapse of the global world order means that the words on the paper don't mean much. Embargoes on Russia didn't mean much so Europeans are physically taking over their ships and Ukrainians are physically sinking the rest of their ships. In Iran nothing other than physically sinking ships and blowing up places meant anything.

Europeans can ship EUV machines because they are physically building them for people who will use these to physically build the most valuable products currently there is. US wasn't able to enforce its will to Iran, what if Koreans, Europeans and the Chinese decide that its not into their interest to act according to US courts?

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#46

Post by dist-epoch »

mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

US is the vast majority of their market - Apple, hyper-scalers, AI labs

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#47

Post by bryanlarsen »

gruez wrote: post #21
varispeed wrote: post #15

Price fixing is legal as long as your are doing it in the open. In the UK it is called "price match" and eg. if supermarket says they keep prices matched to their competitor. No regulator raises an eyebrow. So here Samsung and SK Hynix could say they price match to Micron and they are in the clear.

>Price fixing is legal as long as your are doing it in the open. In the UK it is called "price match" and eg. if supermarket says they keep prices matched to their competitor. No regulator raises an eyebrow. No, the key term is "collusion", which could be done in the open or not. If a competitor told you they were unilaterally raising prices in secret, that would still be legal. Where you get into trouble is if you a…

I worked in a small town gas station as a kid. We always phoned our competitor to let them know when we were changing our prices, and they extended us the same courtesy. Usually we followed them, but sometimes we didn't.

Gas prices are posted on massive highly visible signs and are public information. This wasn't collusion, it was a sign of intense but friendly competition.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#48

Post by jackb4040 »

0xy wrote: post #3

I think it's incredibly unlikely to be deliberate price fixing this time. Demand is too high.

Prices skyrocketing create a perfect opportunity to slip in a little artificial bump and hope everyone blames the market. See also: egg prices in 2024.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#49

Post by russli1993 »

dist-epoch wrote: post #46
mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

US is the vast majority of their market - Apple, hyper-scalers, AI labs

And hyper-scalers, Apple, AI labs all will die if memory makers can't sell to them?

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#50

Post by mrtksn »

bilekas wrote: post #43
mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

> What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They would lose access to their largest market, I'm sure shareholders would havesomething to say about that ?

The market is the AI boom and the US is the host, they can sell the exact same stuff to someone else. What are the capitalists who fund the AI build up do? Invest in SaaS when they can't buy chips? I bet if something like that happens the chip manufacturers wouldn't end up with product they have no one to sell to.
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