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California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

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Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#41

Post by giantg2 »

iamnothere wrote: post #8
giantg2 wrote: post #6

The author is concerned that the feds could subpoena the data from the company that it's being submitted to. Wouldn't this same concern apply to the feds serving a subpoena to the state? Once the data is out there, it's out there. If one level of government has it, all the peer/higher levels will have access of they want it. It sounds like this database is the one that feeds license data to NCIC. The bigger question…

States can and do resist federal subpoenas and have more leeway in doing so. They also have enormous legal resources.

This is pretty rare. I find it unlikely the state would fight against basic driver license records released under a subpoena.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#43

Post by dboreham »

devmor wrote: post #36
wat10000 wrote: post #25

We should switch to a national ID system and be done with it. The patchwork we have is getting more ridiculous by the day.

I don’t want the federal government to have control or oversight on my ID. Why would anyone want that?

Everyone with a passport wants that. I think the issue isn't so much the government having control (all governments in all countries have such control and the sky doesn't fall in) but rather the nature of the government the citizens of the US permit.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#44

Post by dgellow »

ang_cire wrote: post #31
chopete3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very good pledge to have all humans to sign up for anywhere on the globe. >>We are choosing to stand in solidarity with Muslim Americans, This particular word, with no other specifc identities after that, takes the air out of this massive effort and gives the impression it is a localized effort.

Do you understand that you're basically pulling an "All Lives Matter" right now? This statement was about the specific incoming US administration that was anti-immigrant, and especially anti-Muslim. It is a localized effort, because not every place has the same problems and needs the same solutions, and hyper-generalized statements that don't call out any particular instances of a problem are meaningless.

From experience quite a lot of HN commenters are in support of reactionary policies, unfortunately

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#45

Post by malicka »

gruez wrote: post #13
tough wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if both left and right weren't just puppets for the capital that finances their superPACs it would be more believable that they're different things

How does sharing drivers license information help "capital"? Sure you can probably handwave some stuff about how sending that information helps the surveillance state which can be used to stop occupy wall st style protests, but it's not clear how that's more convincing than the other common refrain, which is that immigration (legal or otherwise) helps "capital" because it drives down labor costs.

Every piece chipped off of our right to privacy and freedom from surveillance is another strike against civil society; it normalizes data-collection further and gives any government contractors (Palantir et. al) a bigger database to profit off of.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#46

Post by dlahoda »

dgellow wrote: post #44
ang_cire wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand that you're basically pulling an "All Lives Matter" right now? This statement was about the specific incoming US administration that was anti-immigrant, and especially anti-Muslim. It is a localized effort, because not every place has the same problems and needs the same solutions, and hyper-generalized statements that don't call out any particular instances of a problem are meaningless.

From experience quite a lot of HN commenters are in support of reactionary policies, unfortunately

Examples?

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#47

Post by iamnothere »

giantg2 wrote: post #41
iamnothere wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States can and do resist federal subpoenas and have more leeway in doing so. They also have enormous legal resources.

This is pretty rare. I find it unlikely the state would fight against basic driver license records released under a subpoena.

It’s unlikely, yes, but in the context of a battle between the executive branch and a state (over some question of rights) then it’s plausible. Depends on the state, why the information is being requested, and what’s going on in politics.

State powers are a check on the federal government (10th Amendment). States need to assert those powers to keep them.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#48

Post by halJordan »

giantg2 wrote: post #41
iamnothere wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States can and do resist federal subpoenas and have more leeway in doing so. They also have enormous legal resources.

This is pretty rare. I find it unlikely the state would fight against basic driver license records released under a subpoena.

States fight the federal government all the time. It's practically a primary function of any solicitor/attorney general if only because the federal government of the only other 800lb gorilla in the state

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#49

Post by tzs »

rectang wrote: post #15
Spooky23 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These issues are really complicated because they aren’t left versus right. Conservatives and progressives both tend to be ideologically skeptical of enhancements/sharing of ID. From a state perspective, there’s a lot of benefit to exchanging this type of information across state lines through AAMVA. It reduces a lot of fraud, avoids a lot of insurance issues that cost the state taxpayers a lot of money. It has a lot…

Should voter ID requirements (a la "SAVE America" act or similar) become law, constitutional prohibitions on poll taxes will lead towards every citizen getting an ID at no charge.

That's technically correct--if you show up at a place and time where the state accepts applications for an ID and submit your application with all required supporting documentation the state will not be able to charge a fee to process you application and give you your ID.

But there is no limit on what it might cost you to (1) obtain the required supporting documentation and (2) go to where you can submit your application at a time when they are accepting applications.

For older people and for poorer people these can be a significant problem. The fact is the for nearly all of its existence the US has not required much ID, meaning it is very hard to transition to such a requirement without disenfranchising many citizens. So far I don't think any proposal for stronger ID requirements has tried to address this.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#50

Post by Spooky23 »

tzs wrote: post #49
rectang wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should voter ID requirements (a la "SAVE America" act or similar) become law, constitutional prohibitions on poll taxes will lead towards every citizen getting an ID at no charge.

That's technically correct--if you show up at a place and time where the state accepts applications for an ID and submit your application with all required supporting documentation the state will not be able to charge a fee to process you application and give you your ID. But there is no limit on what it might cost you to (1) obtain the required supporting documentation and (2) go to where you can submit your applica…

> So far I don't think any proposal for stronger ID requirements has tried to address this.

That isn’t some accident of circumstance. The entirety of the purpose of voter id initiatives is to disenfranchise these very people.

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