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The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

ohadravid.github.io

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Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#41

Post by esseph »

joenot443 wrote: post #20

Looks like the author submitted it themselves to lobste.rs. Some nice discussion there, as well. https://lobste.rs/s/csgzki/exhaustion_talking_tool As an aside, it's nice to see that Lobsters has remained a quiet success. As much as I love HN and the work Dan's done to keep it how it is, I welcome to variety. There are vanishingly few places for polite and earnest discussion online these days.

I quickly lost any interest in that site once I realized its dependence on social verification. That "bar" turns the site into an elitist social club. No thanks.

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#42

Post by mewpmewp2 »

tptacek wrote: post #31
iwontberude wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because large language models give a variable reward and it’s essentially an addiction that many people have not even recognized.

In what sense is this true that isn't true of a simple web search?

And on the other hand talking to people, but I guess most extroverts in a way are "addicted" to talking to people as well, so it's a fair comparison. From my personal experience talking to people can end in wildly differing and unexpected results. In fact, I think rewards from LLMs are way more static as opposed to rewards from talking to people.

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#43

Post by vladms »

stillpointlab wrote: post #23

I feel on the other side of this. Just yesterday I was reviewing some code output from Claude and I realized a change that I had asked for in a previous review step wasn't what I wanted. I had a moment of social anxiety, like I didn't want to bother a coworker with my indecision. But I have to remember, the LLM doesn't care. It doesn't have an ego. It doesn't get annoyed at being asked to redo work. I still say "plea…

Sorry to hear about the moment of social anxiety (I assume it happens with humans occasionally). But can't wonder don't you have also moments of joy because of job well done, an appreciative colleague or something similar?

I don't like either the "negative" part, but I find it necessary to have both negatives and positives in life to create bonds, meaning and more simply, not to get bored. I would be worried that if I just talk with a machine (no feelings involved) I will get depressed and demotivated.

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#44

Post by Joel_Mckay »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #34
iwontberude wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because large language models give a variable reward and it’s essentially an addiction that many people have not even recognized.

That is interesting, but also I do wonder, what in life doesn't have a variable reward? You could say that any routine activities like maybe cleaning, etc, is all the same, but most non routine things in life seem like they would have variable reward? E.g. talking to people definitely yields in very variable rewards, if you do non routine work, there's constant variable rewards, etc.

Happiness is derived from a balance of a meaningful life, and pleasant experiences we may choose.

Also, one may have no pain or concerns, and still existentially despair over a meaningless life built on intelligence campaigns exploiting millions of people.

Only psychopaths find short lived joy in harming others, and only make up around 1% of general populations. Have a wonderful day =3

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#45

Post by newtonianrules »

Could you imagine how destroyed people like this would be if they faced actual adversity in life? Like if they had to live through the Spanish Flu, or the Great Depression, or hell even lose a loved one to something as now trivial to treat as tetanus?

Oh, the horror, having to type to a system that will do your job for you while you sit in an air conditioned office in a comfortable chair listening to a podcast while you work.

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#46

Post by cindyllm »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #44
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting, but also I do wonder, what in life doesn't have a variable reward? You could say that any routine activities like maybe cleaning, etc, is all the same, but most non routine things in life seem like they would have variable reward? E.g. talking to people definitely yields in very variable rewards, if you do non routine work, there's constant variable rewards, etc.

Happiness is derived from a balance of a meaningful life, and pleasant experiences we may choose. Also, one may have no pain or concerns, and still existentially despair over a meaningless life built on intelligence campaigns exploiting millions of people. Only psychopaths find short lived joy in harming others, and only make up around 1% of general populations. Have a wonderful day =3

[dead]

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#48

Post by jdw64 »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #39
jdw64 wrote: post #37

I talk almost exclusively with AI these days. There's no one around me who knows programming, I get tired of reading code for projects I'm not interested in, and the projects I am interested in are too difficult, so I just talk with AI, organize my thoughts, and read books. There's no one around me who does programming. There are hardly any programmers in my town. The upside is that most programming-related tasks in…

Why talk to AI though, there are plenty of humans you can reach online if you want to Many evenings I spend on voice chat with friends around the world, these days

You're right. Because conversations with AI don't force me to deal with boring code, don't scratch my ego, and they flatter me.

On top of that, talking to smart developers in real life is exhausting. Putting aside whether they share my interests, there are too many arrogant people. There's also the embarrassment of being asked, 'You don't even know this?' when they have knowledge I lack. The problem is that while that embarrassment could help me grow, it also leaves scars.

And on top of that, the Korean internet is more toxic than you'd think. Most of the male-dominated communities in my interests are filled with misogyny and derogatory remarks. (You can think of Korean internet communities as having 4chan as their baseline.)

So maybe I just chose AI to stay in a greenhouse.

So I'm not sure. Whether I lack the courage to leave the greenhouse, or whether I'm just genuinely exhausted.

The Korean programming communities just spam programming memes, and most of those are factually wrong. I don't want to bother fighting over them.

Even though I've successfully delivered to 40 different companies, my opinions are always seen as 'unsubstantiated personal views,' while those who come from prestigious companies have their opinions treated as 'insights born from experience.' So it feels like there's no one I can have an equal conversation with.

Ultimately, most relationships seem to require the other person to have something to give me, but I don't have anything to give them in return.

I get along quite well with people in real life. But I have no conversations with them about the things I actually care about. And that's lonely. They all say I'm kind and diligent, but I don't have anyone I can truly open up to.

Re: The Exhaustion of Talking to a Tool

#50

Post by mewpmewp2 »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #44
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting, but also I do wonder, what in life doesn't have a variable reward? You could say that any routine activities like maybe cleaning, etc, is all the same, but most non routine things in life seem like they would have variable reward? E.g. talking to people definitely yields in very variable rewards, if you do non routine work, there's constant variable rewards, etc.

Happiness is derived from a balance of a meaningful life, and pleasant experiences we may choose. Also, one may have no pain or concerns, and still existentially despair over a meaningless life built on intelligence campaigns exploiting millions of people. Only psychopaths find short lived joy in harming others, and only make up around 1% of general populations. Have a wonderful day =3

I think happiness is very complicated. Would you think there's a perfect formula to follow that will yield you the "happiness"? And how does this relate to different brain wirings of different people? Would you say per brain wiring there's a different specific ideal formula one would have to follow? E.g. there's some base things like getting proper sleep, exercise, diet, but then there's some more specific things for that brain wiring?
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