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Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

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Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#41

Post by jm4 »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

You would be breaking numerous laws, your transmitters would be removed quickly, you would be out thousands of dollars in equipment, and no one would be on your network anyway. You would almost certainly go to jail if you tried this.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#42

Post by Vates »

ikrenji wrote: post #12
nonethewiser wrote: post #5

Porn companies should be held liable for distributing porn to minors. Its already illegal. Denial about requiring basic KYC is causing all sorts of perverse solutions. Accept the requirement so we can have a sensible technical solution.

don't be so naive. if the billionaires want this, it can't be good for you. it really is that simple

The billionaires don't want it though, that's why most of the big tech CEOs are against it. Perhaps we should listen to Elon Musk though, after all, he "brought free speech back to Twitter." That is, as long as we ignore the adjustments to the algorithm that boost his personal flavour of politics. At least he isn't banning anyone, bots included.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#43

Post by sieabahlpark »

Bender wrote: post #9
mentalgear wrote: post #3

> Pass laws requiring companies that use third party age or ID verification to take full legal culpability for that data. If any of the data is leaked they must pay each party $1 million dollars regardless of how or why the data was leaked. 300 identities leaked or sold? That will be 300 million dollars not counting criminal penalties. Should this lead to bankruptcy then it is working as intended as they are clearly…

Too much? I suppose the solution would be to not collect the data in the first place and instead use RTA headers and client checks for said header assuming legislators come to their senses and start caring about kids.

[dead]

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#44

Post by downrightmike »

mentalgear wrote: post #3

> Pass laws requiring companies that use third party age or ID verification to take full legal culpability for that data. If any of the data is leaked they must pay each party $1 million dollars regardless of how or why the data was leaked. 300 identities leaked or sold? That will be 300 million dollars not counting criminal penalties. Should this lead to bankruptcy then it is working as intended as they are clearly…

Discord used a 3rd party and they were supposed to delete IDs they were sent, but they didn't do that and it got leaked

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#45

Post by econ »

orbital-decay wrote: post #2

To add to the list: KYC/AML-like regulations and practices (not necessarily financial) that shift the responsibility down the chain, outside the accountability zone, and result in preventive overly broad risk avoidance, self-censorship, and manipulation of your Overton window. See for example DMCA vs YouTube practices vs what actual channels choose to do to dodge both. Or algospeak. Or the PayPal situation which is m…

Create a government from scratch.

Version control the laws.

Compare the laws with all other countries.

Hoard data.

Write code to replace government employees and to make laws easy to implement. (If done well consider selling a product or service)

Make everything modular so that the establishment can steal it.

Get people involved. Doesn't matter if you need to write a sim and convince them it is a game.

Pretend the whole exercise is writing code so that you can imagine you are perfect for the job.

I learn that people from all political angles like the idea of voluntary taxes (but no one believes it can work)

If the whole thing can run on donations and volunteers with a few "state" owned companies a hot swap becomes inevitable.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#46

Post by big85 »

edoceo wrote: post #24

There has got to be a way to assert that a user is human, and over some age, without having to identify which specific human that is.

I suspect something like this is on the way, in the long term. Every site has some Cloudflare captcha or the like to guard against the AI scraper bots. Eventually, we may need some kind of token which is only issued to real humans.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#47

Post by bijowo1676 »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

I think everyone (especially young gen) should absolutely master the offensive hacking skills.

I will certainly teach my kids everything I know about exploiting and destroying enemy computer systems.

This is the equivalent of the 2nd Amendment, but for the Internet space. You should absolutely be able to inspect, disassemble, debug, everything you can in a computer system and have the knowledge to knock it down, if it (or its owner) starts misbehaving.

Literally every single problem with computer system can be solved if the entire population, armed with simple Kali Linux, decides to strike back against the tyranny of the government

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#48

Post by crummy »

ikrenji wrote: post #12
nonethewiser wrote: post #5

Porn companies should be held liable for distributing porn to minors. Its already illegal. Denial about requiring basic KYC is causing all sorts of perverse solutions. Accept the requirement so we can have a sensible technical solution.

don't be so naive. if the billionaires want this, it can't be good for you. it really is that simple

Billionaires also want vaccines, sometimes do they have our best interests in mind. They can’t extract wealth from the poor masses if we’re sick!

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#49

Post by Bender »

memoriesofsmell wrote: post #39
asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

Trusted IPSec tunnels to form your own trusted internet of peers/friends within the internet. It's all just 'a LAN' then. I dunno how well that scales, but it's a lot easier than trying to sort out radio shenanigans (which in my experience are actually regularly enforced by FCC/your local equivalents).

That's been done a few times with Tinc (open source VPN) [1][2]. It's great until the group includes one bad apple. All it takes is one person with low impulse control, low opsec to bring the whole thing down. Some hacker groups did this some time ago.

[1] - https://www.tinc-vpn.org/

[2] - https://www.linode.com/docs/guides/how-to-set-up-tinc-peer-t...

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#50

Post by Bender »

lmz wrote: post #33
Bender wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too much? I suppose the solution would be to not collect the data in the first place and instead use RTA headers and client checks for said header assuming legislators come to their senses and start caring about kids.

Of course for this to work the client has to check it and know the device's user is underage. Any devices or software that either do not check or lie about the user's age will be illegal. Since you can write software that does so too, unsigned software that does network access will be made impossible.

That responsibility must move to the parent to ensure young children are using locked down devices that have parental controls and that detect the RTA/adult headers. At that point no third parties are involved and all web platforms must do is add a header to any URL that has the potential for either adult or user contributed content that could become adult and require moderation.
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