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Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

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Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd buy it but i want it in a laptop form or maybe tablet, or something. Being a monitor means the usefulness for me, ie being able to program outside, is kinda moot.

the person who made this prototyped an e-ink framework 13 and it looks awesome... https://x.com/zephray_wenting/status/1535041457035280392

Framework would be a win win collab!

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#42
post #36
post #4

There is an awesome YouTube video about this from the person who made it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nHbA2-_qzH4

Wow, I'm glad to see that person is getting some more recognition for this work. A claim in the video that I can't verify but makes economic/logistic sense is that the speed problem isn't the panels but the controllers. The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case.

> The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case.

Why try to contort the technology for something it's not good at, instead of using a more appropriate technology like transflective LCDs? Eink isn't the only option for reflective displays. If you increase the power use of eink to get better refresh rates, I imagine you'd end up using more power than (and still end up with lower refresh rates than) an MIP display.

I don't understand the growth of the market as a whole for eink monitors, when tLCDs exist and are disappearing from the market.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#43

Between this, the Daylight computer (I know it's RLCD), and some of the flagship Boox devices, I'm very excited for where alternative display technology is going in the next couple years. Displays that you can use outside and that drain the battery way slower open up so many possibilities for auxiliary devices. My ideal device would be an ultralight android tablet with a keyboard case and an outdoor display good enou…

As a defense of Garmin, even without reflective/transflective/whatever displays (which would be better in sunlight), they still manage decent battery life. I can easily go a full week without charging mine, or several days with a daily ~1hr activity which uses GPS. It's certainly nothing compared to the ~month I managed on my previous watch, but plugging it in during my shower every few days totally eliminates battery anxiety, so I'm satisfied.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#44
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow EMR stylus enjoyer, which one do you prefer the most? The thin one in the phones tends to be too small to use comfortably and the one that comes with the Galaxy Book/tablets is decent (but the Galaxy Book has very inconsistent support for the buttons). The Wacom One stylus used to be my favorite, but lately I've been enjoying using the Kindle Scribe stylus/the fat Staedler stylus (I think they're both ver…

My favourite stylus is the Staedtler Noris Digital Stylus which stands in for the classic #2 pencil quite nicely. That said, these days, I mostly use the Premium Pen included w/ my first-gen Kindle Scribe, or a Wacom One stylus (where the Staedtler used to be, prompted by my chipping and cracking the screen on my GB3 and having to apply a screen protector --- the harder tip on the W1 being a better match). The Staedt…

In the above, "rubbery" should read round, and the attribute "rubbery" applies to the eraser.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#45
post #5

> two-person startup is back fund-raising for Modos Flow, a 13.3-inch color e-paper monitor with a higher native resolution of 3,200 x 2,400, touch input, and a 60Hz refresh rate Those are some mighty specs. Godspeed.

If I had the 600-odd dollars, I'd absolutely buy this. It's a damn shame it's so expensive.

It's in the same ballpark as reMarkable's Pro offerings or the Supernote Manta (each are $4-500). e-ink is expensive. I went with Supernnote for the repairability even if it cost a bit extra.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#46
post #42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I'm glad to see that person is getting some more recognition for this work. A claim in the video that I can't verify but makes economic/logistic sense is that the speed problem isn't the panels but the controllers. The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case.

> The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case. Why try to contort the technology for something it's not good at, instead of using a more appropriate technology like transflective LCDs? Eink isn't the only option for reflective displays. If you increase the power use of eink to get better refresh rates, I imagine you…

It isn't clear to me that eink's underlying display technology isn't good at the interactive computing use case so much as the implementations aren't optimized for it. There could be a position where more power than an eink reader is used but still far less than traditional active displays since unchanged pixels aren't driven.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#48
Been casually following the ePaper/eInk device space for years now and Modos is one of the more exciting developments I've come across in the space. Seriously impressive.

That said, I'm curious what impact the increased refresh rate might have on a Carta panel's longevity. I assume the physical medium that allows each 'pixel' to be on/off has a certain tolerance after which the screen begins to degrade beyond a usable state.

Separately, I also want to understand more about how Wenting's approach differs (or not) from the flickering modern displays use to emit a picture, and, whether the direction actually addresses eye strain or reproduces the same issues (I'm assuming are) inherent in LCD/LED displays — i.e. it's the flickering that strains our eyes, not just light.

Maybe someone more versed than I am in this space would know. After 10+ years of computer work... my eyes hurt and I really want this to be a game changer.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#49
post #42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I'm glad to see that person is getting some more recognition for this work. A claim in the video that I can't verify but makes economic/logistic sense is that the speed problem isn't the panels but the controllers. The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case.

> The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case. Why try to contort the technology for something it's not good at, instead of using a more appropriate technology like transflective LCDs? Eink isn't the only option for reflective displays. If you increase the power use of eink to get better refresh rates, I imagine you…

I'm pretty sure e-ink has a much higher ceiling for reflectance than TLCDs/RLCDs, so you'll be able to use it comfortably without a frontlight in a lot more situations which could more than make up for increased power usage. I think they are also naturally better in terms of glare compared to any type of LCD.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#50
post #48

Been casually following the ePaper/eInk device space for years now and Modos is one of the more exciting developments I've come across in the space. Seriously impressive. That said, I'm curious what impact the increased refresh rate might have on a Carta panel's longevity. I assume the physical medium that allows each 'pixel' to be on/off has a certain tolerance after which the screen begins to degrade beyond a usabl…

In normal use, we don't expect fast refresh to significantly reduce an E Ink panel's lifetime.

The E Ink material itself is long-lived, the main stress is on the driving electronics and waveform behavior during refreshes. Our approach doesn't add extra refresh cycles, the display starts responding sooner, which improves perceived speed without adding extra refreshes.

So far, fast refresh hasn't been the dominant failure mode in our testing. Physical stress, bending, pressure, heat, and moisture are much larger risks.

On eye strain: E Ink is reflective and bistable, so a static image doesn't require continuously emitted light. Fast updates can still produce artifacts like flashing, dithering, or ghosting, but that's a different issue from a display that continuously flickers.

So I'd say this addresses an important part of the problem, though comfort will vary by person.

Also I recommend checking out the following resources:

- https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okjJURIejIY

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