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How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

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Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#41

Post by frollogaston »

thelastgallon wrote: post #19

Meanwhile, bay area has companies with market cap of 30T (50T?), has nonexistent/incompatible and the slowest public transit. 1) BART 'works' for a subset of the population. 2) ACE train is one route only, from Stockton to San Jose. 3) Caltrain is one straight line. Caltrain has a bullet train that takes an hour for ~20-30 miles. 4) There is a ferry service for some parts of north bay. There are probably dozens of ot…

BART alone was confusing before they made the trains actually match with the colors on the map, circa 2016. Used to insist on only designating trains by endpoint, except the endpoints changed as they expanded lines, and also changed depending on the day/time. So even a year into daily riding BART to/from work, I took the wrong train a few times.

I went to NYC and also various other countries, easily understood the train/subway system even if it was in a language I don't understand. Except for Italy.

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#42

Post by kurthr »

thelastgallon wrote: post #19

Meanwhile, bay area has companies with market cap of 30T (50T?), has nonexistent/incompatible and the slowest public transit. 1) BART 'works' for a subset of the population. 2) ACE train is one route only, from Stockton to San Jose. 3) Caltrain is one straight line. Caltrain has a bullet train that takes an hour for ~20-30 miles. 4) There is a ferry service for some parts of north bay. There are probably dozens of ot…

The morning "bullet" trains (503/507/511) from San Jose Diridon take 1hr to go 48miles with 10 stops. I think electrification and widening to 3 tracks improved times and reduces the likelihood of delays. Certainly, they run more often now, about every 10 minutes at rush hour and every 30min off hours and weekends.

https://www.caltrain.com/?active_tab=route_explorer_tab

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#43

Post by gib444 »

thatmf wrote: post #8

> Unlike infrastructure projects in Britain or America, which are heavily reliant on external consultants to handle all stages of the project, this group of well-paid in-house engineers led much of the Madrid Metro expansion. The team stayed largely the same throughout the different projects, meaning that they were able to learn from their experience and apply it to future projects. Imagine that: building expertise i…

In the UK infrastructure projects are about creating jobs and making their friends rich first, and providing some kind of useful infrastructure last (and also optional)

There is so much thievery of public funds it's just corruption disguised as incompetence and the public believe it every time

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#44

Post by msm_ »

SJC_Hacker wrote: post #29
thelastgallon wrote: post #19

Meanwhile, bay area has companies with market cap of 30T (50T?), has nonexistent/incompatible and the slowest public transit. 1) BART 'works' for a subset of the population. 2) ACE train is one route only, from Stockton to San Jose. 3) Caltrain is one straight line. Caltrain has a bullet train that takes an hour for ~20-30 miles. 4) There is a ferry service for some parts of north bay. There are probably dozens of ot…

The transit times seem long, but often beat driving times especially during rush hour Thw CalTrain being “one line” makes perfect sense because it runs parallel to the Valley No the system is not perfect, but it is still one of the best in the country, except for NYC and maybe Boston

>No the system is not perfect, but it is still one of the best in the country, except for NYC and maybe Boston

I mean, there are a lot of poorer countries (especially in europe) that manage to solve this in a much better way, so this kind of proves OP point that raw purchasing power is not equivalent to the standard of living.

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#45

Post by frollogaston »

arkits wrote: post #34
thelastgallon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco Tried to Build a $1.7 Million Toilet. It’s Still Not Done: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.h...

It opened in 2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noe_Valley_public_toilet

Hm so at least they scaled the cost down to $200K, which suggests that the bad press did something, but that also relied on the whole prefab toilet being donated.

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#46

Post by sieve »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #10
thatmf wrote: post #8

> Unlike infrastructure projects in Britain or America, which are heavily reliant on external consultants to handle all stages of the project, this group of well-paid in-house engineers led much of the Madrid Metro expansion. The team stayed largely the same throughout the different projects, meaning that they were able to learn from their experience and apply it to future projects. Imagine that: building expertise i…

In India metro is either built by private companies in a Public Private Partnership Or by govt orgs by contracting it out. Both styles have resulted in massive delays so much so that it has become a meme that metro will be inaugurated 100yrs into the future Maybe if Govt hired actual engineers like they do for railways then metros will be prioritised

Depends on the state and the political environment. Some people will deliberately sabotage projects for political reasons. The biggest problem with metros in India is the inability to provide last mile connectivity. Some cities will run buses in competition to metro lines, or provide free bus travel to women. Both actions compete against a fast mode of travel.

So, it is an India problem, not a government problem.

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#47

Post by thomasfl »

thelastgallon wrote: post #19

Meanwhile, bay area has companies with market cap of 30T (50T?), has nonexistent/incompatible and the slowest public transit. 1) BART 'works' for a subset of the population. 2) ACE train is one route only, from Stockton to San Jose. 3) Caltrain is one straight line. Caltrain has a bullet train that takes an hour for ~20-30 miles. 4) There is a ferry service for some parts of north bay. There are probably dozens of ot…

Private companies and competition, solve a lot of problems in the society. Like making food supply work. Planning and building cities and public transport is something the public sector is better at solving. Clean, nice and walkable cities with a good working public transport system, is important for the local economy to work. City planning is the art of compromises - no body get’s what they want, but overall everybody is better off in the end.

Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)

#50

Post by fer »

gib444 wrote: post #43
thatmf wrote: post #8

> Unlike infrastructure projects in Britain or America, which are heavily reliant on external consultants to handle all stages of the project, this group of well-paid in-house engineers led much of the Madrid Metro expansion. The team stayed largely the same throughout the different projects, meaning that they were able to learn from their experience and apply it to future projects. Imagine that: building expertise i…

In the UK infrastructure projects are about creating jobs and making their friends rich first, and providing some kind of useful infrastructure last (and also optional) There is so much thievery of public funds it's just corruption disguised as incompetence and the public believe it every time

In Spain it is the same, the Metro de Madrid being an anomaly rather than the norm (for now).

Some flagrant cases:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciudad_Real_International_Airp...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castell%C3%B3n%E2%80%93Costa_A...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8BRnx8eQFfihvHmv5

https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/05/17/inenglish/15580...

The 2008 crisis had a special flavor in Spain, cajas de ahorros (privately owned, but politically controlled banks) worked with politicians -surprise- to grant mortgages (i.e. lending someone else's money) to buyers of the housing constructions they themselves had their fingers in, at a time regular banks were already wary of the direction of the housing market. It wasn't uncommon people being told which bank to go to to obtain a mortgage that'd be usually refused.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_bank_(Spain)

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