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Never talk to the police

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Re: Never talk to the police

#41

Post by happytoexplain »

m348e912 wrote: post #30
lwansbrough wrote: post #16

It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, w…

This is so true, and it's surprising how many people don't know what they are obligated to do when asked by an officer. It's even fuzzy for me at times. It should be well known that you are required to show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States (1996)], your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)] , and you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [P…

I'm going to charitably guess that you do not mean "surprising" in the common way, as in "wow, I can't explain why people don't know this laundry list of requests you are or are not required to comply with"; but rather as in "it's surprising that we find ourselves in this hellish society where citizens need to memorize a bunch of shit or else live in fear of every police interaction where they might sacrifice a right they didn't need to or vice versa and get handcuffed."

Police should not be allowed to put you in that situation, period. Then you can teach everybody that one fact, instead of an incomplete list of one-off rules (that are apparently not even easy to interpret, as demonstrated by the other replies to your comment).

Re: Never talk to the police

#42

Post by ceejayoz »

m348e912 wrote: post #30
lwansbrough wrote: post #16

It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, w…

This is so true, and it's surprising how many people don't know what they are obligated to do when asked by an officer. It's even fuzzy for me at times. It should be well known that you are required to show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States (1996)], your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)] , and you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [P…

> show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States]

Not what it establishes. https://www.oyez.org/cases/1995/95-5841

> your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)]

Not what Brendlin establishes (https://www.oyez.org/cases/2006/06-8120) nor Johnson (https://www.oyez.org/cases/2008/07-1122).

Passengers in a vehicle aren't even required to have a license. There's no requirement for citizens to carry papers in the US.

(They may be required to give their name, but not carry ID.)

> you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [Pennsylvania v. Mimms (1977) (for drivers)

Only because "officers had stopped Mimms for a legitimate reason and, upon observing [a] bulge in his jacket" (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1977/76-1830)

> Maryland v. Wilson (1997) (for passengers)]

Similarly, if the stop is legitimate. (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1996/95-1268)

Re: Never talk to the police

#43

Post by Cider9986 »

seethishat wrote: post #7

It is OK to talk to them. Just don't lie and don't answer questions. Doing either could land you in jail.

Talking never helps, it cannot help. Nothing you say to cops can help you.

Even if it's completely entirely true and they believe it and they like you and that's enough for me. It can only hurt you.

Re: Never talk to the police

#44

Post by rybosworld »

bloppe wrote: post #2

I suppose a grain of salt has to be taken for the fact that this is basically an ad

Regardless, what they say here is genuinely true and it's worth knowing things like "police are allowed to lie to you". Some people find that sort of thing surprising.

Re: Never talk to the police

#45

Post by DavidWoof »

m348e912 wrote: post #30
lwansbrough wrote: post #16

It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, w…

This is so true, and it's surprising how many people don't know what they are obligated to do when asked by an officer. It's even fuzzy for me at times. It should be well known that you are required to show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States (1996)], your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)] , and you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [P…

Under what circumstances a passenger needs to identity themselves differs significantly from state to state. Also, neither Brendlin v. CA or AR v. Johnson talk about identification requirements, so I'm not sure what you're thinking there. Maybe you're confusing it with exiting the car?

And before someone says "but the Supreme Court overrules the states", no it doesn't. Many state courts have found that their state constitutions grant their citizens more rights than the US Constitution in various circumstances.

Re: Never talk to the police

#46

Post by Cider9986 »

linsomniac wrote: post #37

TL;DR: Never talk to the police. In fairness I'm going to give half my time to a police detective. Detective: He's right, never talk to the police. This is a classic! it's informative but also entertaining.

This is a classic internet video for sure. One of my favorites to share.

If anyone has any other videos like this (usefulness, vibes, any topic) I would appreciate recs.

Re: Never talk to the police

#47

Post by [deleted] »

m348e912 wrote: post #30
lwansbrough wrote: post #16

It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, w…

This is so true, and it's surprising how many people don't know what they are obligated to do when asked by an officer. It's even fuzzy for me at times. It should be well known that you are required to show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States (1996)], your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)] , and you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [P…

[deleted]

Re: Never talk to the police

#48

Post by pseudalopex »

buellerbueller wrote: post #33
SoftTalker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't talk, and it annoys the cop, so they fabricate evidence against you, or charge you with some other unrelated thing that they would have otherwise let slide.

if they are going to fabricate evidence, why do you think they wouldn't also do that if you do talk to them and you already match whoever they are looking for? Your position is just bonkers.

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."[1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Never talk to the police

#49

Post by linsomniac »

lwansbrough wrote: post #16

It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, w…

Yes. However: it's always safe to say, as you are complying: "I do not consent to this." It should also be safe to ask "Are you giving me a lawful order?", but situations will vary. Beware that they can be very good at giving answers that sound like "yes" but are not "yes". ("I need to see your drivers license." "Are you giving me a lawful order?" "I need to see your drivers license." That is not a yes.)

Re: Never talk to the police

#50

Post by digitalPhonix »

Brendinooo wrote: post #26
digitalPhonix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article (and any similar advice) is that 4 is not possible

The police couldn't creatively turn a five-minute interaction into my day/week/month getting wrecked? You can be held for ~2 days without charges being filed, right?

If they wanted to do that, your chances of "I talk, and it screws me" are pretty high anyway.

Also, don't take my word for it - here's a US police officer saying the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE (skip to the second half)

He wouldn't talk to police.

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