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Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

theguardian.com

41–50 of 52 posts

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It... probably is unsafe for human babies (or even adults) to be ingesting compounds known to disrupt hormone production in mammals... Contrarianism has become a mental disorder

It’s not actionable information though.

Sure it is. People should be outraged about this and demanding vastly more testing, more research, and more regulation.

The vast majority of information published anywhere at any time is not any more "actionable" than that. You just don't like this information because it makes you uncomfortable... as it should.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#42
post #15

The uncomfortable, not even close to proven hypothesis, is that increased exposures to such hormone-disrupting chemicals are associated with an increased incidence of sex- and gender-diverse identities. That might be a good thing...I think sex- and gender-diverse people are wonderful and interesting...but the uncomfortable thought though is what that might imply in terms of the consequences of environmental policies.…

The article is talking about the effects of these chemicals on infants breastfeeding and the effects on newborns. While these are endocrine disrupting chemicals, people aren't transgender because their hormones are imbalanced. The reason transgender people do hormone replacement therapies is so that they can change their hormonal balance. If these chemicals were making people trans, baseline blood tests, which you ne…

I believe fully in trans rights, and any reason why a person may be trans has no bearing on whether that person should have equal status in society as anyone else.

And this kind of argument is to me a dangerous sociopolitical mistake:

> While these are endocrine disrupting chemicals, people aren't transgender because their hormones are imbalanced.

One should acknowledge that there may be a very significant difference between hormone effects in a breastfeeding infant while the brain is full tilt in the process of wiring itself vs later in life after things like language and identity are established. We definitely don't know. We can also acknowledge that we don't know how hormone effects combine with environmental/social effects. That need not alter one's feelings about gender diversity.

It's the same as the "gay people didn't choose to be gay" argument when really it should just be ok to be gay. Don't let reasons get in the way of reason.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1st, as I said, this is an unproven hypothesis. 2nd, the dominant impact on reported prevalence rates are 1) social acceptance of those identities, and 2) the relative risk in revealing those identities. If being stoned to death is the risk faced for being gay, people won't tend to admit to being gay to a researcher.

> social acceptance of those identities Why would it not work the other way too? Maybe the Western society is hell bent on putting people into boxes, whereas people in third world countries are willing to look the other way for minor deviations [sic] as long as they're useful to their family / village / society? If you didn't imbibe in your children that the only way to be a "man" is to be the jock on the football te…

Please name one "third world country" that enforces gender roles less harshly than the US, particularly the liberal US cities where gender diversity is the most common.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not actionable information though.

Sure it is. People should be outraged about this and demanding vastly more testing, more research, and more regulation. The vast majority of information published anywhere at any time is not any more "actionable" than that. You just don't like this information because it makes you uncomfortable... as it should.

I don’t like this publication, I think the actual scientific study is good information.

The information should be considered by regulators and scientists. They should read the scientific journals directly. I want to be able to trust in institutions to make informed decisions to improve environmental factors that require collective action.

I don’t think informing citizens about danger so they can demand policy reform is the actual purpose of The Guardian article. I’d love to be wrong on this, but that’s a fairy tale about how the system actually works.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#45
post #15

The uncomfortable, not even close to proven hypothesis, is that increased exposures to such hormone-disrupting chemicals are associated with an increased incidence of sex- and gender-diverse identities. That might be a good thing...I think sex- and gender-diverse people are wonderful and interesting...but the uncomfortable thought though is what that might imply in terms of the consequences of environmental policies.…

The article is talking about the effects of these chemicals on infants breastfeeding and the effects on newborns. While these are endocrine disrupting chemicals, people aren't transgender because their hormones are imbalanced. The reason transgender people do hormone replacement therapies is so that they can change their hormonal balance. If these chemicals were making people trans, baseline blood tests, which you ne…

There is some evidence that hormone balance in the womb (including from the mother) can affect gender and sexuality. It's not impossible that it would also have an effect a little later as well, while the brain is still very plastic. I think the strongest version of the immutable gender/sexuality idea (that it is entirely genetic) is almost certainly false. My hottest take (mainly from my own experiences) is that it can perhaps in some cases be mutable a lot later than people think (which, to be clear, is a very different thing from it being a choice or controllable, and even if that were true, it would still be a valid choice).

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is. People should be outraged about this and demanding vastly more testing, more research, and more regulation. The vast majority of information published anywhere at any time is not any more "actionable" than that. You just don't like this information because it makes you uncomfortable... as it should.

I don’t like this publication, I think the actual scientific study is good information. The information should be considered by regulators and scientists. They should read the scientific journals directly. I want to be able to trust in institutions to make informed decisions to improve environmental factors that require collective action. I don’t think informing citizens about danger so they can demand policy reform…

I'm quite confident that scientists (and hopefully regulators) read the source journals.

> I want to be able to trust in institutions to make informed decisions to improve environmental factors that require collective action.

And you want to be able to do that without the public being informed enough to even care and hold them accountable for that? Why on earth would a politician make a costly decision like introduce regulations that makes plastics a lot more expensive when the public literally has no reason to want such a thing?

> I don’t think informing citizens about danger so they can demand policy reform is the actual purpose of The Guardian article

The "actual purpose" of any published information is pursuit of incentives, so sure, you're right. Guardian publishes this article to get ad views. The journalists publish it to increase their notoriety and hopefully get a promotion. But the same applies to the information published in journals. The "actual purpose" of putting it there is to increase the researchers' stature in the research community.

> that’s a fairy tale about how the system actually works.

Not really. The entire system, insofar as any system works whatsoever, is to co-opt people's own imperfect incentives (like pursuit of ad clicks or personal notoriety) to produce positive externalities (like an informed public). This is literally every stable system. A company co-opts people's personal incentives to feed their families to produce the externality of a profit-generating corporation.

Pointing out that people and institutions have imperfect incentives and therefore the system is broken, that is the fairy tale that people tell themselves to avoid engaging with reality as it exists.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#47
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being transgender represents a misalignment between your internal sense of self and the sex you were born with. Sometimes this is about societal expectations and pressure to conform to gender ideals, sometimes it is about the physical body you were born into/the primary and secondary sex attributes of that body, and often it's both. Hormone replacement therapy is a way of altering the body's secondary sexual attribut…

> Being transgender represents a misalignment between your internal sense of self and the sex you were born with. These thoughts, like every other thought anyone has, are mediated by hormones. I'm not saying any particular balance or resulting thought is good/bad/right/wrong/healthy/unhealthy. But this is akin to saying "being aggressive represents a state of excessive confidence, not elevated testosterone levels." S…

Weirdly though, exogenous testosterone tends to make people more generous and social until you cross some boundary. Roid ragers are using too much external T.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#48
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people aren't transgender because their hormones are imbalanced. The reason transgender people do hormone replacement therapies is so that they can change their hormonal balance. Not so sure, it could have to do with their hormones. I recall experiencing mild gender dysphoria during a period when my testosterone was recorded as below normal. When it returned to normal the dysphoria went away. It could be that some…

I just wanted to say that gender dyphoria is not the same as being gender diverse. A lot of times there can be no dysphoria if you live in a loving and accepting environment.

I have a few people in my life that are gender diverse, and simply changing their pronouns to they/them when referring to them has so far been sufficient to make them feel happy and accepted.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being transgender represents a misalignment between your internal sense of self and the sex you were born with. These thoughts, like every other thought anyone has, are mediated by hormones. I'm not saying any particular balance or resulting thought is good/bad/right/wrong/healthy/unhealthy. But this is akin to saying "being aggressive represents a state of excessive confidence, not elevated testosterone levels." S…

Weirdly though, exogenous testosterone tends to make people more generous and social until you cross some boundary. Roid ragers are using too much external T.

Definitely interesting! Aren't people starting to describe testosterone as something more like "status-seeking?" But also testosterone presumably exists in animals with ~no concept of status...

Just goes to show you how incredibly complex and broadly impactful these chemicals are.

Re: Dangerous hormone-disrupting chemicals found in US breast milk samples

#50

> The chemicals present a serious risk to infants because they likely interfere with hormones that are critical to newborns’ proper development, and have been found to be harmful at very low levels of exposure. About 92% of 50 samples were contaminated with at least one of the anti-microbials or plasticizers for which researchers checked. If they were that significantly harmful it would be massively obvious at that l…

Do you mean potentially showing up as a global decline in fertility rates and multi-generational bioaccumulation of these compounds, threatening to destroy the foundational structure of modern civilization (population growth)? Well, do I have news for you!

Which is not to say that it's interfering with fertility rates by making partners less potent/fertile, because, presumably, we would have heard about a significant increase in failures to conceive. Or is your implication that it has affected sex drive?
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