I used sound waves to make espresso • Hacker News Board

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#41

Post by kowalej » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:47 PM UTC

kowalej wrote: post #35

This seems very interesting, at least from a pure coffee nerd standpoint and what it could mean for improving espresso brewing in general. However, I'm going through the research paper, and am a bit skeptical of the energy savings angle, especially considering the many variables with espresso machine in terms of how they heat and brew (single vs dual boilers, heat exchangers vs dippers, spring lever machines vs pump…

Ok, I just looked it up and the Ascaso Uno is a thermoblock design, while the Sanremo Cube is an HX machine with a full on steam boiler. Therefore, the Ascaso wouldn't even have instant on steaming and has basically no stand-by power usage. So yea... their comparison is bogus, unless I'm missing something from the paper.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#42

Post by Alupis » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:48 PM UTC

tadfisher wrote: post #34

wil421 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an ultrasound cleaner and it definitely vibrates and is noisy.

I think that's just a sound cleaner.

Every ultrasound device makes sound, sometimes a lot of sound, because it's vibrating all of the materials, liquids, and air around it.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#43

Post by hdndjsbbs » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:49 PM UTC

kowalej wrote: post #35

This seems very interesting, at least from a pure coffee nerd standpoint and what it could mean for improving espresso brewing in general. However, I'm going through the research paper, and am a bit skeptical of the energy savings angle, especially considering the many variables with espresso machine in terms of how they heat and brew (single vs dual boilers, heat exchangers vs dippers, spring lever machines vs pump…

"room temperature espresso" was the first thing I thought of - espresso is meant to be drunk hot, right away. If you let a good shot cool off and compare it to a bad shot you're not going to notice the difference as much because you made them both worse by letting them sit and cool.

For industrial processes it probably doesn't matter - look at how nescafe is manufactured.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#44

Post by Retric » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:51 PM UTC

fredoliveira wrote: post #36

amarant wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely they will ban it to protect the Italian heritage of the traditional espresso.

is there prior art to the EU banning a new technology to protect an old one?

GMO etc is arguable but there’s limits around what you can call some things based around how they are made.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#45

Post by ninalanyon » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:51 PM UTC

amarant wrote: post #32

janpmz wrote: post #22

Don't show this to the EU, or they will force us drink only ultrasound espresso from now on.

More likely they will ban it to protect the Italian heritage of the traditional espresso.

I suppose it's plausible that labelling might be required but what makes you think the EU would ban it?

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#46

Post by milkshakeyeah » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:51 PM UTC

fredoliveira wrote: post #36

amarant wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely they will ban it to protect the Italian heritage of the traditional espresso.

is there prior art to the EU banning a new technology to protect an old one?

Not really I think, but it’s not uncommon to protect product by restricting production methods or ingredients to traditional ones. So name espresso could be legally restricted to only when it’s brewed in traditional way.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#47

Post by criddell » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:52 PM UTC

hylaride wrote: post #8

hallway_monitor wrote: post #2

After the last one of these posts talking about cold brew coffee I attempted to replicate the results by just throwing some water and coffee into an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner. Results were not satisfactory. I wonder if extracting the transducer from the jewelry cleaner and attaching it to my Portafilter would work.

It'd be a learning experience to find the right settings. Coffee usually goes in two directions. Under-extracted (sour) or over-extracted (bitter). Things that will affect the extraction are temperature (hotter usually means more extraction), time (longer = more), grind size (more surface area in smaller grinds = more), pressure (higher = more) etc. Roast levels also matter.

I often produce espresso that is bitter and sour.

The best coffee that I've drank for the past five years have all been pour overs (my favorite was at a place called The Library in Toronto). I sometimes wonder if all the time, effort, and money I've dumped into espresso has been a huge mistake and maybe I should just buy a pour over setup...

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#48

Post by davidkuhta » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:53 PM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #9

"Most of us think of espresso as a hot, high-pressure ritual." - No, most of us dont care how the sausage is made, and just want the end product. Sure theres lots of individual coffee enthusiasts who cares, but in % terms thats not "most of us", most of us do not care, and nobody in my 40 years of life has ever complained about coffee energy usage. Extract with sound waves is an interesting idea, but dont romanticize…

Guessing you like your espresso bitter?

“Saving up to 75% of energy by not heating the water is a minor benefit for home users or small coffee shops. But for companies making ready-to-drink coffee products at industrial scale…”

The instant and dried coffee market is $35B-$50B. Cold Brew another $3B-$4B.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#49

Post by cratermoon » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:58 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #17

saagarjha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ultrasound so presumably it will be difficult to hear

I have an ultrasound cleaner and it definitely vibrates and is noisy.

but that could be fixed by isolating the device from the environment, the ultrasound would not be heard, unless you're a bat.

Re: I used sound waves to make espresso

#50

Post by kruffalon » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 7:58 PM UTC

zaat wrote: post #23

kruffalon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do! I think almost everything tastes better at room-ish temperature. (Some things need to be colder or hotter to keep their texture, but I can't think of anything that _tastes_ better outside of the 16~25°C range)

Sparkling water (8-10C is the recommendation on the bottle in my hand). Bread (fresh from the oven, toast). Chicken Soup. And leaving aside examples, many things do taste better when they are hotter then 25, the heat helps more particles reach the olfactory receptors in your nose.

I'm sure that is correct for many people, but as I said: to _me_ things taste better at around room temperature.

Even though I don't doubt your claim that some particles travel easier at higher degrees I suspect the difference is too small to notice before the rise in temperature becomes distracting to _me_.