41–50 of 51 posts
I can barely figure out what this article is about because the language is like molasses. It stands to reason that disciplined, dopamine starved monks find modern engagement economy computers and software somewhat engaging, as they are probably like recreational drugs to enquiring bored minds
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You joke, but, leaving religion out of it, it's plausible that if the want long lived infrastructure that's maintained with integrity, it may be that tithing of some description is part of the solution. Currently the closest we have is patron, but most of those are still part of hustle culture rather than the supporters feeling a long term obligation.
I know that there’s a pretty overwhelming antithesis about religion, hereabouts (there’s a lot of valid reasons, but, in my experience, it tends to originate from personal animus), but some things that you get from organized religion, are a sense of community, a very long view, and fairly strict rules about personal integrity and behavior. There’s a lot less of the cutthroat competition, than you’ll see in industry a…
I agree with most of this, and also have experienced the positive outcomes of people thinking ahead and sublimating short term reward for long term gain (for the collective).
However it seems antithetical to put a reward function on it so there is this catch-22 about what makes the thing "good" also makes it difficult to achieve.
The monks likely have the time to think about implementation, and feeling like they’re part of an institution that transcends them and that they value for its own sake, they likely have an incentive to invest effort into maintaining and improving it. Both of these are unlike, say, corporate environments, where the core work uses up almost all available time and where most people are looking mostly to extract somethin…
They know they will outlast some of their reports, so they're incentivized to build memory and maintainability at the levels below them.
And good managers get promoted, i.e. leave the team but stay in the company, so there's a reputational incentive to leave things in a good place for whoever comes after you. (Though this is only true at good orgs -- at bad orgs, the next person will get fully blamed for a bad handoff).
The best leaders have values that transcend their bank account, and understand their legacy depends on being able to transition effectively.
Your career and relationships transcend any single gig, and there is a dignity that people recognize in departing well, and even in making the best of a bad job. Campground rule, leave things better than you found them.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Monasteries follow strict rules. Good for those who fit these rules but monasteries are far from a place for people who don’t fit. I may have missed something though - I don’t see how is that related to the linked article.
Fit into wider society. If someone has sensory issues, then a monastery would be a more peaceful place. Some people like set routine as well.
So do they have have a sort of executive officer for the week/month/year, with all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more important matters?
The monks likely have the time to think about implementation, and feeling like they’re part of an institution that transcends them and that they value for its own sake, they likely have an incentive to invest effort into maintaining and improving it. Both of these are unlike, say, corporate environments, where the core work uses up almost all available time and where most people are looking mostly to extract somethin…
The core activities is praying and working, ora et labora:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ora_et_labora
The praying is done at fixed times:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_of_the_Hours
With work and other activities (meals) planned around them. Nuns have a similar framework:
* https://www.franciscansisterstor.org/about/daily-schedule
I'm sure you could find "time to think" in there, but the schedule is pretty packed.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know that there’s a pretty overwhelming antithesis about religion, hereabouts (there’s a lot of valid reasons, but, in my experience, it tends to originate from personal animus), but some things that you get from organized religion, are a sense of community, a very long view, and fairly strict rules about personal integrity and behavior. There’s a lot less of the cutthroat competition, than you’ll see in industry a…
I think the question becomes "how does this behavior get rewarded?". I agree with most of this, and also have experienced the positive outcomes of people thinking ahead and sublimating short term reward for long term gain (for the collective). However it seems antithetical to put a reward function on it so there is this catch-22 about what makes the thing "good" also makes it difficult to achieve.
Good behaviour is ideally its own reward: intrinsic motivation. Extrinsic motivation—either (monetary) reward or punishment—is (AIUI) less effective.
Fulfillment through meaningful relationships and accomplishment has been considered the basis of happiness for quite a while:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Wealth, honour/fame/glory, power, pleasure are not bad in themselves, but generally can be considered as means to an end of and not really ends in themselves:
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You joke, but, leaving religion out of it, it's plausible that if the want long lived infrastructure that's maintained with integrity, it may be that tithing of some description is part of the solution. Currently the closest we have is patron, but most of those are still part of hustle culture rather than the supporters feeling a long term obligation.
The long term obligation for them is created by the very thing you wanted to leave out.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You joke, but, leaving religion out of it, it's plausible that if the want long lived infrastructure that's maintained with integrity, it may be that tithing of some description is part of the solution. Currently the closest we have is patron, but most of those are still part of hustle culture rather than the supporters feeling a long term obligation.
I know that there’s a pretty overwhelming antithesis about religion, hereabouts (there’s a lot of valid reasons, but, in my experience, it tends to originate from personal animus), but some things that you get from organized religion, are a sense of community, a very long view, and fairly strict rules about personal integrity and behavior. There’s a lot less of the cutthroat competition, than you’ll see in industry a…
There are two ways to evaluate things. One is selection: look at the options available, decide which is best, and go all in on that one. The other is to understand things as deeply as possible, what the moving parts are,what makes them tick, what the unknown possibilities might be, etc.
We as individuals have to use selection a lot of the time. You can't do only the good parts of two jobs, or marry only the good parts of two spouses. But it's also profoundly negative to be obliged to only think in those terms: for example, when citizens are told that they have no choice other than to vote for the lesser evil, it lets politicians off the hook for only being slightly less corrupt, and reduces citizens to a passive role. Ironically, those who try to shut political discussion out of HN are doing the same thing: saying "just choose, do not think".
So, while I might be interested in instances where religious people have a longer term approach, it's not interesting to me as a "plus for religion". It's interesting if it leads to understanding and new ideas. Of course, as a non-believer I would like to separate any benefits from the need to be loyal to unprovable assertions. But that's actually secondary.