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Ear Training Practice

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Re: Ear Training Practice

#41

Post by Slow_Hand »

functionmouse wrote: post #3

I think we would be a lot more musically verbal as a society if our musical notation had a more objective foundation in math and reason. For example, A to B is a different distance than B to C. We have a 12 note system with only 7 names for them; 12 names would make sense, and even 6 names would make sense, but 7? We could be teaching notes to children objectively like how we teach colors, but we're not.

If you want an excellent explanation of why proposals for new notation systems like you’re suggesting have been developed (and failed) Tantacrul has made an excellent video describing the history and tradeoffs that lead us to our current system:

https://youtu.be/Eq3bUFgEcb4

He’s product lead at MuseGroup developing notation software and his expertise lies at the intersection of music composition, UX design, and programming.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#42

Post by apercu »

vunderba wrote: post #2

These are all good exercises that help you build a solid foundation, but they can sometimes cause motivation to dip being somewhat clinical in nature. So what I usually do is compile a list of melodic hooks from popular songs my students enjoy. Every so often, we’ll play them and let the student try to pick them out on the piano or their instrument of choice. I find that the satisfaction they get from being able to r…

I think this is smart. I have never done ear training apps because I just don't like to learn music that way - it doesn't "stick" for me.

I like to learn in the context of a song. Here's what a melody sounds like when you start it over the 1 of a chord. Here's a melody when you start it on the 3 over a chord. But, again, in the context of a known song.

I just don't think "non-musical" exercises have ever moved me forward as a musician, if that makes sense.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#43

Post by twobitshifter »

nostrademons wrote: post #32
epiccoleman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have much experience reading musical notation? I've found that engineer types tend to immediately bristle at the weird parts of how notes are named because the system seems really kludgy until you realize that there's actually a utility in the weirdness - namely, that scale patterns look roughly similar in any given key and so sight reading is counterintuitively easier with the current system than it would be…

There's also a huge amount of math behind music that is fascinating. The first-approximation engineer realization about music (which I suspect the GP is going off of) is "okay, there are 12 notes in the chromatic scale, each octave doubles frequency, therefore the frequency ratio between two adjacent notes is the 12th root of 2 and we should just have 12 names for the notes". This is what's called an "equal-tempered…

We do have an equal temperament scale! That’s what most music uses. What we don’t have is just intonation which uses simple ratios/intervals for the notes. It’s just intonation without the beating, equal temperament, which was listen to all day has the beating but we’re adjusted to it.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#45

Post by apercu »

functionmouse wrote: post #30
black_puppydog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're roughly describing Chromatone and their Muto method of notation: https://muto-method.com/en/index.html Sure, if path dependency was were not a thing, this might make more sense. But it takes an extraordinary amount of time to really get good at music and you don't want to be the only person who speaks a completely different language to the people around you. So it makes sense to stick with what everybody speak…

In a way, string instrument players already think this way

I skimmed the article but the parallel did not seem obvious to me. I play 'string' instruments (bass guitar, guitar, open tuned resonators) but I guess my approach is fairly standard - I read music but don't site read real-time very well. But When I "think" about music it's the same way most western musicians think about music (I assume) and that's diatonically in relation to the major scale as a reference point.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#46

Post by klaff »

functionmouse wrote: post #16
taco_emoji wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "objective" foundation to music. Mapping twelve letters onto a piano keyboard would then look something like this: B D G I K A C EF H J LA Which means an A major scale in this notation would be ACEFHJLA, which is actually less intuitive than understanding the circle of fifths etc. and arriving at ABC#DEF#G#A (to use this universe's notation)

In your traditional system, if you want to play something a step up, you have to actually think about it; which notes will now become sharps, which won't, etc. In my system (A though L, or more simply, 1 through 12), you simply add 2 to each note. It's easier to work about and isn't as rigidly defined by the culture it came from.

You just described https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole-tone_scale. Nothing stopping anyone from writing and playing music in such a scale, but it won't help you with nearly all the music you are likely to be familiar with.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#47

Post by vunderba »

apercu wrote: post #42
vunderba wrote: post #2

These are all good exercises that help you build a solid foundation, but they can sometimes cause motivation to dip being somewhat clinical in nature. So what I usually do is compile a list of melodic hooks from popular songs my students enjoy. Every so often, we’ll play them and let the student try to pick them out on the piano or their instrument of choice. I find that the satisfaction they get from being able to r…

I think this is smart. I have never done ear training apps because I just don't like to learn music that way - it doesn't "stick" for me. I like to learn in the context of a song. Here's what a melody sounds like when you start it over the 1 of a chord. Here's a melody when you start it on the 3 over a chord. But, again, in the context of a known song. I just don't think "non-musical" exercises have ever moved me for…

I’m with you. I rarely use mechanical drills, even though I recognize that they can sometimes have value (cough Hanon cough), especially when you’re focusing on ergonomics. I tend instead to focus on things my student already enjoys, because it gives them a grounding.

Another trick I like to do is take a popular song, rip out the melody, and keep the chord progression. Then I’ll usually scaffold a nice accompaniment using Band-in-a-Box so the student has something looping in the background while they try to piece out the original melody themselves on their respective instrument.

That can sometimes give them more guidance, since it locks them into a specific key signature and helps them feel the flow and explore the space.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#49

Post by klaff »

nostrademons wrote: post #32
epiccoleman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have much experience reading musical notation? I've found that engineer types tend to immediately bristle at the weird parts of how notes are named because the system seems really kludgy until you realize that there's actually a utility in the weirdness - namely, that scale patterns look roughly similar in any given key and so sight reading is counterintuitively easier with the current system than it would be…

There's also a huge amount of math behind music that is fascinating. The first-approximation engineer realization about music (which I suspect the GP is going off of) is "okay, there are 12 notes in the chromatic scale, each octave doubles frequency, therefore the frequency ratio between two adjacent notes is the 12th root of 2 and we should just have 12 names for the notes". This is what's called an "equal-tempered…

You've got that a bit backwards.

Re: Ear Training Practice

#50

Post by sebastiansm7 »

vunderba wrote: post #2

These are all good exercises that help you build a solid foundation, but they can sometimes cause motivation to dip being somewhat clinical in nature. So what I usually do is compile a list of melodic hooks from popular songs my students enjoy. Every so often, we’ll play them and let the student try to pick them out on the piano or their instrument of choice. I find that the satisfaction they get from being able to r…

This is very fun!
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